• OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      An email recently released by the whistleblowing organization WikiLeaks shows how the Clinton campaign and Democratic Party bear direct responsibility for propelling the bigoted billionaire to the White House.

      In its self-described “pied piper” strategy, the Clinton campaign proposed intentionally cultivating extreme right-wing presidential candidates, hoping to turn them into the new “mainstream of the Republican Party” in order to try to increase Clinton’s chances of winning.

      Ah, the real reason people hate WikiLeaks. It exposed the truth, but rather than focus on the truth people focused on the messenger.

      • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        My brother in OSRS, they had emails from the Republican Party as well, but didn’t release them because they said there was nothing interesting in them. I don’t disagree at all that Clinton’s strategy was inappropriate, but there’s plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike WikiLeaks. Ironically, there’s a lack of transparency on them. They should’ve released the GOP emails.

        WikiLeaks has a problem when we need a WikiLeaks for WikiLeaks.

      • letsgocrazy@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        Sadly the republicans had zero say in their slide to right wing extremism and could do nothing about it. It’s not like their flirtation with the Tea Party movement meant anything.

        • Asafum@feddit.nl
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          11 months ago

          Yup, poor poor Republicans… They don’t actually agree with all the things they say on Facebook or memes they share, or political violence they wish for or enact. Poor Republicans, it was all the evil Democrats that made Republicans be who they are. It’s really a shame that they have absolutely no brain of their own that they just go with whatever the Democrats make them do. We should be lead by that party though, because they’re “free thinkers”

          …wait

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        11 months ago

        It’s not just Trump either they’ve used the strategy for many insane Republican primary candidates.

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          11 months ago

          Republicans are retarded maniacs and Democrats are gaslighting hypocrites who play dumb when called out on their bullshit.

      • spider@lemmy.nz
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        11 months ago

        It exposed the truth, but rather than focus on the truth people focused on the messenger.

        In this case, the media also focused on the messenger and gave Hillary a pass on the actual contents of those e-mails.

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      11 months ago

      Hilarious mistake.

      I suppose this would have been effective if even a fraction of the Republican voterbase was reasonable.

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Hilarious mistake.

        The mistake wasn’t elevating Trump, but running in the first place.

        There’s a very real chance she’d have lost to Ted Cruz or Jeb Bush in a non-Trump national campaign, simply because she was a weak candidate with an awful reputation in the Midwest. There’s a reason she struggled in the primary, both in 2008 and 2016, against a couple of political outsiders despite having an enormous financial and name-recognition advantage.

        You can’t win the Presidency without Michigan, Ohio, and Wisconsin. And Hillary was never going to win those states, under any alternative opponent. She lost Pennsylvannia, ffs. No viable Democrat loses Pennsylvania.

  • halfempty@kbin.social
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    11 months ago

    Hillary is toxic to the brand. The Democrats would be wise to keep her at arms distance.

    • lennybird@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      It’s a little sad because decades of right-wing anti-Hillary propaganda not only proved effective, but it noticeably altered Hillary into this jaded cynic completely lacking in vision or idealism. I’m not a huge Hillary fan, but the vast majority of the hate is completely manufactured outrage. That being said it doesn’t change what you said being valid.

      You can see them trying with AOC, but I suspect it won’t yield the same results.

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    11 months ago

    I love how most of the comments here are about how much everyone hates Hillary rather than about what she actually said. I get it that people hate her, but let’s be real folks; Trump is the only relevant clear and present danger here. Bitching about Hillary seems pretty pointless at this point.

    • joker125@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Thank you!

      Bitching about Hillary is how Trump got elected in the first place.

          • Thief_of_Crows@sh.itjust.works
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            10 months ago

            No, by ending the primaries early, and by feeding her debate questions in advance, and 15 other things I’ve forgotten by now that we saw proof of in her emails.

    • Ben Hur Horse Race@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      I hear you. What she said is correct. The thing is, this person is so unlikeable that there’s no way she can help. No matter how sharp you are, or how good of an elected official you’ll be (and I do think she would have been extremely good at her job if she was elected (I did vote for her)), you must have charisma to be effective in politics.

      I honestly believe in my heart that if she paid millions for widespread TV ads with her saying “do not vote for Donald Trump” it would help him.

      • Garbanzo@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        What she said is correct.

        But it’s not though. The sentiment is in the right place but she got her facts wrong.

      • TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id
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        10 months ago

        Again, you are focusing on her rather than on what she actually said. That’s what I find so telling and unfortunate. Are we really so shallow and politically inept that we can’t hear a message simply because we dislike the messenger?

        It seems like you are telling me yes, that’s exactly how shallow and politically inept we are.

        If so, that sucks, especially since you are almost certainly correct.

    • TwoGems@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      A Hillary win would have saved the Supreme Court. Now we are on precarious ground. There was no disadvantage in her winning

      Let’s face it - had she won, things would be way better than they are, and we wouldn’t be in the constant fascist danger we are now.

      • Thief_of_Crows@sh.itjust.works
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        10 months ago

        Yep, you can blame the Dems and Clinton herself 100% for that one, given that we know Bernie would have won. She is directly responsible for things being as bad as they are.

        • phillaholic@lemm.ee
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          10 months ago

          given that we know Bernie would have won

          You don’t know that at all. You didn’t see the playbook against him.

          • Dadd Volante@sh.itjust.works
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            10 months ago

            True, but to pretend the Democrats didn’t actively sabotage their most popular candidate in favor of the “safe” choice… twice… is a stretch.

            I voted for Biden. Will vote again.

            Voted for Hilary, too.

            Not because I wanted to. Democrats don’t seem to want to do much beyond maintain the status quo, at least at the presidential level.

            • phillaholic@lemm.ee
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              10 months ago

              Bernie was not their most popular candidate. This is an internet Fable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Graphical_summary_of_polling

              It makes my head spin that people think Bernie lost because he couldn’t overcome the most standard political maneuverings of the Democrats, and yet he would somehow overcome the political maneuverings of the Republican party which plays far dirtier than the Democratic party does. Does everyone forget the Bush Campaign spreading rumors that John McCain’s adopted Bangladeshi daughter was actually an illegitimate Black child from an affair? Or how about when they turned John Kerry’s service in Vietnam into a something he only did for fame?

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    11 months ago

    I get it, but this take fucking worries me, dawg. The last time the Democrats played the “I don’t have to try and appeal to you because the other guy is Hitler, lol” card, ‘Hitler’ won. It’s even a little on the nose that this is coming from Hillary. I’m worried that they’re falling into the same intellectually and politically bankrupt trap as in 2016, that they’re aware that they don’t have a meaningful platform besides “we’re not republicans”, and that they’ve somehow convinced themselves that this is enough. The republicans of 2020 and 22 also had that same absence of platform, absence of appeal, and just trying to coast on party brand, and look where that got them. Shit is on fire, we don’t have time for these dumb fuck games, let alone for Trump to win again. C’mon guys, don’t fuck this up.

    • Doc Avid Mornington@midwest.social
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      11 months ago

      It’s not an accident. The country is moving left, and the right-wing Democrats are afraid of losing control of the party. They almost did, twice. They don’t take the “the other guy is Hitler” rhetoric seriously, themselves. They aren’t worried about losing their power if the Republicans win the Whitehouse, or even both branches of Congress, because it’s all one big club, and they won’t be kicked out, as long as they go along to get along, but they are terrified that a leftist rise will take the reigns of the Democratic party from them, and then they really will be out of power.

    • teft@startrek.website
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      11 months ago

      When she called them deplorables they ate it up. She just needs to not stick her nose in.

      • Narrrz@kbin.social
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        11 months ago

        yeah, i came here to post that she is not the person to voice this. anyone currently supporting trump isn’t going to suddenly switch sides to his opponent in the original race, it actually just weakens the argument.

    • jonne@infosec.pub
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      11 months ago

      The thing those people don’t understand is that they think democracy is a goal onto itself, instead of a means to an end. A good chunk of the population would happily get rid of democracy in order to have someone in power ‘who can just get stuff done’. Especially since said democracy is ridiculously unresponsive to the will of the people.

      Compare the polling on the Gaza conflict compared to what members in the house are saying, for example. Or any other super popular thing (legalising weed, taxing the wealthy, not running a global empire that constantly gets involved in wars,…)

      And, for the record, Hillary, Hitler never got over 50% of the vote, it was other, so-called democratic parties that gave him the Chancellor job. They could’ve created a different governing coalition, but they thought they could control him.

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          11 months ago

          Well, the issue with electing one of those people is that you usually can’t vote them out again. It’s definitely not a good move, but when people are desperate enough and they feel ignored by their representatives, they’ll roll that dice.

    • reddig33@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Dems lose because dems gamble. They always pick some rando as VP instead of the person who got the second most votes in the primary. They should’ve gotten rid of the electoral college when Gore lost. They keep running and electing excruciatingly old people who might die or go senile in the middle of everything (Biden, Feinstein, Pelosi, etc.).

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      11 months ago

      They’re gonna fuck it up.

      Honestly, I truly believe that both Democratic and Republican politicians benefit from all the bullshittery going on - so of course they’ll actually do nothing to improve the situation for America’s citizens. As long as they get money and they get paid, they’ll say and do whatever the fuck they can, including fucking things up for us.

      Probably not much better across the pond, but I am finding myself more and more looking up how to become a UK citizen because at least they have less zany shit going on from what I can tell.

      • hark@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        You had me in the first half until you brought up the UK. The UK? Seriously?!

      • roguetrick@kbin.social
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        11 months ago

        both Democratic and Republican politicians benefit from all the bullshittery going on

        They absolutely don’t. They just have a very short term view because of reelection cycles and fundraising needs. You’d think their capitalist masters would also realize this increasing polarization and dissatisfaction with the status quo is going to make the line go down, but nobody ever accused economic liberals of actually being aware when the noose was tightening on their necks.

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    11 months ago

    All the negative anti-Hillary comments in this thread aside, please vote responsibly in 2024.

    We cannot afford another 2016 situation again.

    • Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de
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      10 months ago

      Tell that to the democratic party that is insisting on putting up a senile old man as their candidate…

      • 𝕱𝖎𝖗𝖊𝖜𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        I dislike Biden for many reasons but he isn’t actively encouraging domestic terrorism, so yeah, I’d say it is. You have to understand your little shitstain set the bar lower than humanly thought possible.

        • Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml
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          10 months ago

          No he’s just directing his DOJ to call anti-apartheid activists anti-Semitic domestic terrorists.

            • Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml
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              10 months ago

              Trump era had people being pulled off the streets into unmarked black vans, literally the bogeyman they used on name growing up about secret police. It wasn’t better, certainly. My concern, is that on one side they’re actively setting fires that can burn us all down, and on the other now, they’re letting those same fires burn, and it’s still burning people. We still have camps on the border. We still haven’t rolled back to Obama-era Cuba restrictions, we still haven’t seen any effort to lessen police funding and it’s oversized control of the budgets of nearly every city in the country. In fact, we’ve seen further money put into police to further militarize them. We haven’t seen Biden demonizing cop city protestors, but he hasn’t done shit in their favor either. We haven’t seen him putting money into food banks to help with record food insecurity. Nothings happening around housing, and most of us are spending over half our income on just rent.

              Like, fuck man. Is the best choice really between active destruction and slow decimation?

        • Thief_of_Crows@sh.itjust.works
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          10 months ago

          No, he’s just actively encouraging genocide, which is totally fine and good with you I presume? People just like you are the reason hitler was able to take power. Nothing trump ever did reached the level of denying and supporting genocide. I’d rather have an idiot in power than a figurehead for very smart and very evil people pulling the strings.

          • 𝕱𝖎𝖗𝖊𝖜𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but both Biden and Trump are promoting the same genocide. The difference is Biden’s support is quite unfavorable, while Trump’s base is riled up by the prospects of war and killing brown people. Hell, House Republicans are trying to expulse all Palestinians from the country.

            • Thief_of_Crows@sh.itjust.works
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              10 months ago

              Trump is not supporting the genocide to nearly the same degree as Biden. Also, we all know trump is all talk. Bidens words should always be taken more seriously than Trump’s, and Biden is the one capable of taking action. And he hasn’t. Nobody should reasonably expect anything of Trump in 2023, while on the other hand, Biden is the president right now, and has a duty to act. Biden is responsible for the genocide, trump is not.

  • masquenox@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    Maybe a politicker who brags about being mentored by Henry Kissinger, a war-criminal whose record matches that of Heinrich Himmler himself, shouldn’t be referencing Hitler.

    • letsgocrazy@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      “matches that of Heinrich Himmler”, you mean the head of the SS and one of the main people behind the holocaust?

      Have you ever considered that your life, and life in general would be better if you didn’t have such absurd and shrill opinions?

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        11 months ago

        There is one way in which Himmler and Kissinger differs… Himmler at least had the backbone to go and witness the results of his policies in person - specifically, the Babi Yar massacre in Ukraine. Kissinger never did go see for himself the gargantuan atrocities he had “achieved” in Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Timor, and Chile.

        Oh, I forgot the other way Kissinger and Himmler differs… Himmler was hanged - Kissinger got off scott-free. So there’s that.

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            11 months ago

            Do you know of other secretaries of state who went to the front?

            Yeah… they don’t really like dirtying themselves with the mess they cause, do they?

        • orrk@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          so you really REALLY do not understand the brutality of the Holocaust then, and less so the history of the sub-chinease peninsula, and Pinochet couldn’t hold a candle to what Himmler did

          • masquenox@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Trying to hide your hero’s crimes behind the Holocaust, are we? Just like your fascist friends over in occupied Palestine?

            Try harder.

                • Caradoc879@lemmy.world
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                  11 months ago

                  Yeah when you start throwing accusations of fascism at random posters, that’s pretty riled up behavior. Nobody but you is talking about Isreal vs Palestine in this thread. Not a single person you responded to said kissinger was a good guy. You can compare atrocities and acknowledge they’re all atrocities.

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Unfortunately, the American education system just kinda gives up teaching history after 1945. Otherwise, you might be more familiar with the US State Department sponsored coups and subsequent genocides in Latin America, the Middle East, Africa, and the Pacific Rim over the subsequent 40 years.

        Kissinger absolutely was administering mass arrests and executions in US client states, from the overthrow of democracies in Iran and Egypt to the massacres of dissidents in Jakarta and Rio de Janeiro and Santiago to the arming of the Khmer Rouge and subsequent bombings in Laos and Cambodia. Say what you will about Himmler, but he only really had the reigns of a mid-sized European industrial power for a decade. Kissinger was instrumental in steering truly nightmarish foreign policies on an international scale for four times as long.

        And when you look at how folks like Kerry and Clinton and Blinken consistently turn to the Kissinger playbook to advance US foreign policy in the modern day, he’s got even more blood on his hands by proxy than that.

        • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          I don’t know of anyone who thinks we can or should stop every genocide. Kissinger didn’t lead these things you’re talking about, or at least the things I I think you’re talking about. And he wasn’t unique in his views. Kissinger is not comparable to Himmler, this is a ridiculous post, shallow. .

          I think Kissinger and everyone in the foreign service and executive branch who helped execute American foreign policy thought was that if two violent factions were going to kill each other, America might as well back the one it thinks it can work with to advance it’s foreign policy goals. Kissinger wasn’t a wizard. He couldn’t make the north and south Vietnamese stop killing each other. You don’t have to like it to pick a strategic interest and choose a side.

          It’s called realpolitik.

    • phoenixz@lemmy.ca
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      11 months ago

      I guess you’re one of those people who day that Hamas is exactly the same as, and has been doing the exact same as Hitler?

      Nuanced, very nuanced…

      • masquenox@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        I guess you’re one of those people who day that Hamas Israel is exactly the same as, and has been doing the exact same as Hitler?

        FTFY.

        No, I’m not one of those people. Israel prefers Willy Pete to Zyklon-B, for instance - so there is a difference, I guess.

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          10 months ago

          Calling Israel the same as hitler may be funny on an “I’m 15 and this is edgy” level, but it’s ignorant as fuck to claim that. Yes, the Israeli has committed and continues to commit atrocious acts, but it’s leagues away from what the Nazis did. It’s not even in the same ballpark.

          Same goes for Hamas. It’s a horrible terror organization, it holds zero candles to hitler and his buddies

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            10 months ago

            hitler may be funny on

            No, Clyde - I don’t find genocide a laughing matter whether it’s nazis or zionists doing it.

            It’s not even in the same ballpark.

            Really? You don’t think there’s any correlation between the nazis’ genocidal concept of “lebensraum” and that which Israel is doing in Palestine?

            it holds zero candles to hitler and his buddies

            Funny you should mention that… it doesn’t hold a candle to Israel when it comes to terrorism, either.

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              10 months ago

              I don’t think that, when comparing two large systems, it’s okay to take two specific items that I “like” and compare only those two.

              Israel and Nazi Germany are not comparable. Comparing them and then worse, finding them quite equal is just 15 years old levels of dumb and ignorance

              • masquenox@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                Israel and Nazi Germany are not comparable.

                Tell me you don’t understand how right-wing ideology works without telling me you don’t understand how right-wing ideology works.

                Noting the differences between Israel and Nazi Germany displays just how similar they actually are - unlike Nazi Germany, Israel is utterly dependent on the west (and in particular the US) for literally it’s day-to-day existence and therefore cannot pursue the policies it wants to pursue with zero constraints as Nazi Germany finally did when it launched it’s genocidal colonialism project in 1941.

                The incremental genocide Israel has been perpetrating since 1949 is purely a matter of geopolitical pragmatism - but the ideological drivers of said genocdie is no different to those that drove Nazi Germany.

                • phoenixz@lemmy.ca
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                  10 months ago

                  Yeah, no.

                  You lost perspective. Badly. Israel is bad. Really bad. Everybody will agree with that.

                  However, comparing Israel with the industrialized mass murder of Nazi Germany is just bullshit. It shows that you don’t understand Israel , Nazi Germany or (most likely) both.

                  Nazi Germany damn near exterminated Jews, gays, Romani, etc. Israel can’t hold a candle to the horrors of nazi Germany.

                  Please go read a history book

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Hamas is exactly the same as, and has been doing the exact same as Hitler?

        A small paramilitary organization operating in occupied territory is doing the exact same as the Chancellor of a European industrial powerhouse?

        I’m always a bit surprised when some terminally online guy tries to give people in Hamas this much credit.

        • Caradoc879@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Small paramilitary organization? Okay guys, we can call Isreal out for genocide while still acknowledging Hamas as a terrorist group that slaughtered 1,000 civilians, plus whatever else since then.

          Hamas and Isreal both suck. The only people I care about are the civilians and dead kids.

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Okay guys, we can call Isreal out for genocide

            Can we? I heard that was anti-semitism.

            Hamas and Isreal both suck.

            One is a paramilitary response to the suffocating violent occupation of the other. Might as well denounce the Vietcong, the Spanish Republicans, or Nate Turner Slave Revolt as Terrorists. You wouldn’t be the first.

            But to equate the two is to equate the symptom with the illness. Even the fucking Times of Israel acknowledges that the Hamas movement is the direct result of Netanyahu’s domestic policies. The Palestinian Authority has been denuded of all legal agency in a territory they cannot govern thanks to Israeli sanctions. Gaza hasn’t had an election since 2006. There is no way for anyone in the territory to survive, absent the black markets and smuggling corridors maintained by Hamas paramilitary.

            This is a deliberate consequence of the stated policies of the Israeli government.

            So both Hamas and the IDF are creatures of the Israeli government. The only way to resolve this conflict is to effect regime change in Israel.

            The only people I care about are the civilians and dead kids.

            The only way to achieve that is a ceasefire. And Israel will not implement a ceasefire until its leadership is removed.

      • Cowbee@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        Bit of a false assumption, isn’t that? There is no ethical consumption under Capitalism, so trying to advocate for better while participating in an unjust system is a requirement for many people.

        • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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          11 months ago

          There’s no ethical way to run a nation. Lincoln was barely able to free the slaves and FDR couldn’t end segregation. Hilary listening to Kissenger doesn’t mean she supports everything he ever did.

          • quicklime@lemm.ee
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            11 months ago

            Listening to him, okay.

            Repeatedly, publicly, referring to him as a dear friend and invaluable mentor is another thing entirely.

            • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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              11 months ago

              It’s called ‘politics.’

              People in politics say nice things about people they hate all the time.

              Ronald Reagan hated Jimmy Carter with a passion. Here’s Reagan speaking about Carter at the opening of Carter’s Presidential Library.

              https://youtu.be/GWTEUOjk2vs

              Politics is the art of making deals with those you abhor. If they have to blather on and on about good fellowship that’s just the oil that keeps the machine operating.

              Demanding that every politician agree 100% is how the GOP managed to shut down the goverment so many times.

              I always remember NYC Mayor Ed Koch’s joke. “If you agree with me 51% of the time, vote for me. If you agree with me 100% of the time, seek therapy.”

              • quicklime@lemm.ee
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                11 months ago

                Taken entirely generally, your points are uncontroversial and common knowledge. But if you’re suggesting Hillary Clinton does not genuinely admire and feel personal friendship for Henry Kissinger, I believe you are mistaken.

                I also did not say, nor did I intend to imply, that she “supports everything he ever did”. In replying to your earlier comment which contained that phrase, I was by no means intending to claim that HRC was a completely uncritical supporter of literally every action of HK.

                • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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                  11 months ago

                  You know, it’s possible to be friends with people who are bad without being bad yourself.

                  Back in the day, the most successful Socialist politician in US history was Fiorella LaGuardia. He ran for New York City mayor on a Fusion ticket, getting support from a wide range of parties, including the GOP. f he’d had a purity test for everyone, he’d have never gotten elected.

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            There’s no ethical way to run a nation. Lincoln was barely able to free the slaves and FDR couldn’t end segregation.

            A hard, bitter truth

            Hilary listening to Kissenger doesn’t mean she supports everything he ever did.

            Absolute bullshit.

          • orrk@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            that is one of the dumbest thing I have read today, and I looked at Reddit’s hot page today,

            are you REALLY going to equivocate anything the US did to the fucking Holocust? fuck, even what they did to the Native Americans can’t hold a candle to that shit, most natives died to disease, almost all Jews/Sinti/Roma/Disabled/Openly Left-wing/Gay/trans died to systematic industrialized execution on a scale that can sparsely be comprehended.

            • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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              11 months ago

              I think you replied to the wrong person. All I said was that I don’t think Hilary Clinton personally approved of Kissinger’s bombing South East Asia.

        • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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          11 months ago

          Can you tell me the name of the ethically sourced device you’re using?

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              :-/

              If you really wanted to set off a riot, you could say you’re using a Huawei device. Then tear into these dorks by citing the peak standard of living of Chinese industrial workers relative to their global peers. No student debts. No medical debts. 90% of them own their own homes. Retirement at the age of 60 is the norm. Life expectancy that exceeds their Western peers. Higher GINI index ranking.

              Lemmy.word hates China with a passion, and nothing drops napalm on a thread like mentioning how much better Chinese industrial workers have it than folks doing shift work in a Toyota plant in Georgetown, Kentucky or Tijuana, Mexico, much less a Mississippi carpenter or some poor bastard doing contract machinist work in lead-contaminated Flint Michigan. And heaven help these bastards if they’re in the UK. People in that former heart of empire can’t even afford groceries, while folks in Pacific Rim states like Vietnam and Malyasia have grown fat and happy.

          • phoenixz@lemmy.ca
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            10 months ago

            Yes, everybody is shades of grey bad. However if you are unable to make a distinction between say, Hilary Clinton bad and clown car Trump bad, then you have a problem

    • TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Biden was my last choice in the 2020 primary, because I knew that whoever we chose would run for reelection. We were picking the President for the next 8 years, and anti-Trump conservatives out voted younger left wing voters in the primary. Even if Warren did endorse Bernie, Biden still would have won with the other candidates’ endorsements. Without the pandemic, Biden might have lost, while Bernie could have pulled enough support from the base to stand a similar chance as Biden. Trump’s response to the pandemic pissed off enough conservatives to give Biden the win, but it also could have given every other Democratic candidate, including Bernie, the win.

      However, this doesn’t mean Bernie wouldn’t have drawbacks as president. The mainstream media would certainly pull a Jeremy Corbyn on Bernie. The base and everyone on Lemmy would stand by him, but he would get torn apart by MMM for doing the progressive things Biden has done, and compared to Trump for even politely disagreeing with mainstream Democrats. If was principled and did everything right, he might pull a good amount of MMM watchers to his side, but many would lap up the propaganda.

      Every mistake made by Bernie would cost him dearly, while Biden has the luxury of making way more errors because he was the most conservative candidate in the primaries. Left wing Democrats aren’t surprised by Biden’s lameness, while conservative Democrats put up with every progressive thing Biden does because every other Democrat would have done the same or worse. Most of the MMM doesn’t call Biden radical for doing progressive things, and left wing Biden voters are generally pleased that he has been more left wing than expected.

      Biden’s biggest failures have been where he sucks in ways you didn’t expect he would. Fucking around with Manchin for months and doing nothing on immigration are huge failures. He claimed to be a deal maker, yet he tried to negotiate with someone who never intended to budge. Obama’s immigration strategy only lost him support, but Biden seems to think that he could avoid motivating the anti immigration crowd. It didn’t work for Obama and Hillary against Trump, and it definitely won’t work for him against Trump. The most conservative Democrats would still vote for him if he tried his hardest on immigration, as neoliberals actually like immigration for its economic benefits.

      In short, Bernie would have an uphill battle against the media, while Biden’s mediocrity shouldn’t surprise anyone on the left. 2020 was where Democrats could have gotten someone better, and now we unfortunately have to live with it.

      • RichCaffeineFlavor@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        And don’t forget about how they used covid as nothing but a football and followed Trump’s exact plan for it as soon as they were in charge of telling businesses they had to let sick people stay home. Democrats have more covid deaths on their hands than republicans now.

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    11 months ago

    While I’m not her fan she is right and this exactly why the current trend on. The internet of voting 3rd party is dangerous, since the Republican are not playing in good faith and they will not split their vote.

      • Alien Nathan Edward@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        She’s about 60% incorrect. The nazi party won a majority in the reichstag via normal electoral means before hitler was appointed chancellor by then-president Paul von Hindenburg. It was only after a series of electoral victories and in the anticommunist bloodlust that followed the reichstag fire that a state of emergency was declared and the coup began in earnest. I’ll give her that she’s mostly wrong because what she literally said is untrue, but because it’s an oversimplification of what happened and her broader point, that nazis used electoralism before they used brute force, is true.

    • Amends1782@lemmy.ca
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      11 months ago

      What are you talking about Republicans split votes with libertarianism all the time, like constantly

      • PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works
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        10 months ago

        Not really. Libertarian and green turnout has been down since Trump/Hillary. Apparently having two terrible candidates makes everyone a tactical voter.

        • phillaholic@lemm.ee
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          10 months ago

          Can’t tell if you were talking about Clinton and Trump or Johnson and Stein. Trump and Stein were the worst two. I’m not convinced shes not a literal Russian plant, and if not she’s a useful idiot for sure. Johnson wasn’t even as good as his running mate, but that party is a joke anyway.

        • Amends1782@lemmy.ca
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          10 months ago

          I don’t understand what you mean, we recently saw some of the biggest percentages for libertarians, like the last president vote in 2020, or even 2016, I recall like 3% PR something. Basically the biggest weve seen in a while. I think Democrats are way more likely to not split. Most conservatives I know say they’d vote libertarian if it didn’t feel like a throw away vote too

    • Madison420@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Republican are playing in good faith

      How exactly?

      and they will not split their vote.

      I wouldn’t hold my breath on that one as they’re fully into leopards ate my face land at this point.

    • gastationsushi@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Yes people should vote for Biden over Trump, because Trump is the biggest threat of our lifetime. But instead of policing people online whenever Biden makes shit policy choices, maybe spend that energy pressuring Joe into doing things voters care about.

      It’s like we all fear Biden is giving up, continuing his on his strategy of alienating voters and liberals want anyone to blame it on besides Biden.

        • gastationsushi@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Busting ass every day? In 21-22 yes, but not lately.

          Talk to marginally engaged voters about Biden, they are either going to make or break him in 2024. And right now, they feel like he is not representing them.

          • phillaholic@lemm.ee
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            10 months ago

            Yea, let’s go back to the guy that’s juggling a half dozen criminal court cases, and tried to overthrow the government, and is more likely to take away my right to vote entirely instead of being mildly annoyed at Joe Biden.

            • gastationsushi@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              WTH are you talking about? My top comment is the opposite of that. And Biden arming a genocide has many Democrats light years beyond annoyed.

              I swear if liberals put their energy pushing for popular policies instead of policing any criticism of Biden, his positions and polls numbers would flip.

              Stop enabling Genocide Joe, because Genocide Joe is how we get Trump again.

              • phillaholic@lemm.ee
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                10 months ago

                It’s an extremely complicated situation, and I have no desire to waste my time with someone using tabloid nicknames to get their point across. Biden doesn’t do his work via Twitter. We’re talking about an upcoming election against a traitor who flip flops on the issue depending on what gets him more press. You think Biden not stopping Israel is genocide, what do you think an authoritarian dictator loving leader of a party of xenophobic Trans hating extremists is going to do?

  • BeautifulMind ♾️@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    I predicted in the 2016 primaries that if HRC became the Dem nominee, it would be the one thing the Right Wing in America could unify itself against- they hated her then and they still do today; I wonder if she realizes yet how big a gift it is to a splintered, ungovernable mob of political grifters to give it anything they can unify against

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    11 months ago

    I think it’s amusing that Hillary thinks anybody gives half shit what she thinks at this point.

    • joker125@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      I find it depressing that people still refuse to acknowledge the encroaching right-wing fascism when Hillary literally warned us all way back in 2016.

      It’s almost like fascists gonna fascism.

      • gun@lemmy.ml
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        10 months ago

        Except she was the one who pushed for Trump to lead the Republican ticket behind the scenes part of a strategy to get the “most unelectable” opponent which backfired. The DNC is also on record funding Trump aligned republicans in the 2020 primary.

      • Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml
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        10 months ago

        Takes one to know one. She presided over the largest expansion of the military in most non-elderly Americans lives, encouraged the restart of nuclear pit production that is happening now, couped a democratically elected government, assassinated their democratically elected leader, and then bragged about it on national TV.

        Her husband was instrumental in the dismantling of remaining New Deal era welfare policies, and intended to dismantle Social Security until his scandal broke. They’re a horrific, greedy, selfish family, with delusions of dynasty. No one genuinely interested in left politics has anything good to say about her. No, you can’t be a leftist and support overthrowing democratically elected governments abroad. Not to mention that she and her foundation actively supported Trump and other MAGA republicans campaigns because, in their delusions of grandeur, it would improve their chances to be elected.

  • EndlessApollo@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    Shut the fuck up you old hag, you and your party got him elected by running ads supporting him and fucking Bernie in the primaries. Why can’t she just fucking die already

    • Centillionaire@kbin.social
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      11 months ago

      Remember when they rigged the primaries and were like “yeah, we can do whatever we want. This isn’t the REAL election yet!” And then they never got court time? Do we really have a choice on who to vote for?

  • tacosanonymous@lemm.ee
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    11 months ago

    I feel like it would be more useful if she switched sides. Like, instead of reminding us how the dnc keeps fucking us, she could remind the maga kids how close she is with Trump. Maybe they’d like him less by association.

    • hanekam@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      In a US style first past the post system the Nazis would have made a clean sweep in July 1932, and wouldn’t have had to intimidate anybody

    • Lobotomie@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      It’s complicated but basically the chancellor (not nsdap) selected hitler as a way of trying to give him some power (because nsdap was still the biggest party after the 1932 election) so he’s happy but not enough where he could get out of control.

      Spoiler alert it went out of control.