You do understand how small amount of that can kill right? The massive problem that it is already?
Again I’m all for decriminalization. These people shouldn’t be being locked up because they have a problem. But the more crazy drugs like that? We shouldn’t make access even easier.
I’m all for legalization of a lot of them. But all? That would lead to literally thousands upon thousands of deaths just with fentanyl alone.
Known dosage and purity. People die of overdoses, and of adulterated doses. A vast amount of the horror of krokodil is the production method leading to impurities, and much of the demand for it comes from the lack of other drugs and the ability to cook it up in a garage.
I…what. so… Your entire opinion about how we should legalize all drugs has nothing to do with improving anything? You just want to do this because it would be a change? You just… Want to do things differently for the hell of it?
I have a legitimate argument against making certain drugs legal, only the extremely dangerous ones that can kill when you take barely any of it. And your only argument for giving the general public extremely easy access to it is… It would make things different?
I’m sorry but, you didn’t really put any thought into this opinion of yours did you?
Something that would, surely, lead to thousands upon thousands of deaths. Just because it would be different. Yes thousands are already dying right now, but if you make it easier to get anybody, even you, has to know those numbers are going to go up.
You do understand how that sounds right? You’re literally saying let’s let even more people die just because it will be different.
Because the reason there are overdoses is because no one has any idea the strength of any of the drugs they take. Knowing exactly the dose of the drug you’re taking because it’s legally purchased is a gigantic benefit
If some massive junkie is shown the numbers he would never overdose? Seeing the dosage would teach them self-control? 2,000 micrograms of fentanyl can kill a person. And you people want this in Walmart?
A gallon of bleach can kill people, and we sell that in Walmart. People don’t want to die, they want to get high. If you can buy 20, 100 microgram doses, why would you take all 20 at once unless you wanted to die, and if you wanted to die, well, there are more guns than people in the US, trains exist, razors exist… Are we to wrap the entire world in bubble wrap?
Disclaimer: if we have an aligned AGI I may well be for some version of wrapping the world in bubble wrap, but I’m almost certain alignment includes allowing people who truly want to die, to die, but having very few such people because of treatments for depression, a world that doesn’t suck, etc.
You really think not making one of the deadliest drugs out there right now even easier to access for everyone is ‘wrapping the world in bubble wrap?’ This can’t really be your opinion is it? That us making it at least a little harder to get fentanyl is us going out of our way to make the world too cushy and safe?
why would you take all 20 at once unless you wanted to die
Because junkies get high and don’t think straight. You honestly believe every single overdose in human history has been either a person who had no idea what they had or an intentional suicide? I am sorry but…do you know addicts at all? Have you ever really had experience with these people in real life, or is this just something you have read about online? I grew up in the meth capital of the world and have watched, first hand, how people are destroyed.
More than 20 years ago, I seriously contemplated drug use, and I set myself some rules, before I started doing anything. I’ve stuck to them, and I’ve put thousands of dollars over the years into getting high. Yes, I know addicts.
People, even addicts, are responding to incentives. It’s been shown that making people’s lives less shit severely reduces addiction; I’m willing to bet that said meth capital is not somewhere where life is generally good, is it? That’s the place to intervene, in quality of life, if you want to reduce addiction. It’s also a very good idea to provide doses of a non-lethal size and known purity in a safe, sterile, nonsexy environment. Do you think people would have gotten into it in the same way if there were no dealers because the addicts were getting their doses at the hospital where you went and chilled for your time high, instead of providing an economic incentive for people to produce and sell it out of garages (periodically detonating a residential home in the process)?
You’re arguing for an older model of addiction that doesn’t resolve the issues, out of a reaction to the fucked up things you’ve seen. Please don’t misunderstand me; I don’t want the world you’ve seen any more than you do. I just think that there are ways to solve this problem that are demonstrated to be better than the criminal model, which is incredibly destructive both on an immediate level, with gangs throwing bullets indiscriminately, cops throwing bullets indiscriminately, and the incentive gradients leading towards worse outcomes for users.
Sure. Would Walmart start selling fentanyl? Would people buy it?
Yes and yes
You do understand how small amount of that can kill right? The massive problem that it is already?
Again I’m all for decriminalization. These people shouldn’t be being locked up because they have a problem. But the more crazy drugs like that? We shouldn’t make access even easier.
I’m all for legalization of a lot of them. But all? That would lead to literally thousands upon thousands of deaths just with fentanyl alone.
So you’re saying it’s a massive problem already… and it’s illegal? Damn, must not be working too great.
What’s the upside to making fentanyl even easier to access for the general public? How does this improve the situation in your eyes?
Known dosage and purity. People die of overdoses, and of adulterated doses. A vast amount of the horror of krokodil is the production method leading to impurities, and much of the demand for it comes from the lack of other drugs and the ability to cook it up in a garage.
People seem to be accessing it just fine. I’m not saying my opinion would improve the situation, but it would definitely change something.
I…what. so… Your entire opinion about how we should legalize all drugs has nothing to do with improving anything? You just want to do this because it would be a change? You just… Want to do things differently for the hell of it?
I have a legitimate argument against making certain drugs legal, only the extremely dangerous ones that can kill when you take barely any of it. And your only argument for giving the general public extremely easy access to it is… It would make things different?
I’m sorry but, you didn’t really put any thought into this opinion of yours did you?
Yes.
Something that would, surely, lead to thousands upon thousands of deaths. Just because it would be different. Yes thousands are already dying right now, but if you make it easier to get anybody, even you, has to know those numbers are going to go up.
You do understand how that sounds right? You’re literally saying let’s let even more people die just because it will be different.
No I’m not literally saying that. You can predict the future now? Amazing.
“We can’t solve the problem so fuck it, let’s increase the problem.”
Because the reason there are overdoses is because no one has any idea the strength of any of the drugs they take. Knowing exactly the dose of the drug you’re taking because it’s legally purchased is a gigantic benefit
If some massive junkie is shown the numbers he would never overdose? Seeing the dosage would teach them self-control? 2,000 micrograms of fentanyl can kill a person. And you people want this in Walmart?
A gallon of bleach can kill people, and we sell that in Walmart. People don’t want to die, they want to get high. If you can buy 20, 100 microgram doses, why would you take all 20 at once unless you wanted to die, and if you wanted to die, well, there are more guns than people in the US, trains exist, razors exist… Are we to wrap the entire world in bubble wrap?
Disclaimer: if we have an aligned AGI I may well be for some version of wrapping the world in bubble wrap, but I’m almost certain alignment includes allowing people who truly want to die, to die, but having very few such people because of treatments for depression, a world that doesn’t suck, etc.
You really think not making one of the deadliest drugs out there right now even easier to access for everyone is ‘wrapping the world in bubble wrap?’ This can’t really be your opinion is it? That us making it at least a little harder to get fentanyl is us going out of our way to make the world too cushy and safe?
Because junkies get high and don’t think straight. You honestly believe every single overdose in human history has been either a person who had no idea what they had or an intentional suicide? I am sorry but…do you know addicts at all? Have you ever really had experience with these people in real life, or is this just something you have read about online? I grew up in the meth capital of the world and have watched, first hand, how people are destroyed.
More than 20 years ago, I seriously contemplated drug use, and I set myself some rules, before I started doing anything. I’ve stuck to them, and I’ve put thousands of dollars over the years into getting high. Yes, I know addicts.
People, even addicts, are responding to incentives. It’s been shown that making people’s lives less shit severely reduces addiction; I’m willing to bet that said meth capital is not somewhere where life is generally good, is it? That’s the place to intervene, in quality of life, if you want to reduce addiction. It’s also a very good idea to provide doses of a non-lethal size and known purity in a safe, sterile, nonsexy environment. Do you think people would have gotten into it in the same way if there were no dealers because the addicts were getting their doses at the hospital where you went and chilled for your time high, instead of providing an economic incentive for people to produce and sell it out of garages (periodically detonating a residential home in the process)?
You’re arguing for an older model of addiction that doesn’t resolve the issues, out of a reaction to the fucked up things you’ve seen. Please don’t misunderstand me; I don’t want the world you’ve seen any more than you do. I just think that there are ways to solve this problem that are demonstrated to be better than the criminal model, which is incredibly destructive both on an immediate level, with gangs throwing bullets indiscriminately, cops throwing bullets indiscriminately, and the incentive gradients leading towards worse outcomes for users.