OP thinks the west should continue to send weapons to Ukraine until Russia pulls out of all former Ukrainian territory, and putin is deposed and sent to the hague, and Russia is balkanized.
Most communists want it to end as soon as possible, with the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine currently occupied by Russia remaining either independent or in Russia if they vote that way.
This is usually misconstrued as supporting Russia.
Ah, so you were in favor of the initial peace plan proposed by Zelenskyy at the start of the invasion?
with the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine remaining either independent or in Russia if they vote that way.
… and what about the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine remaining part of Ukraine? Is that not an option? Does democracy only count if it benefits Russian interests?
This is usually misconstrued as supporting Russia.
No, it’s simply recognizing the Motte-And-Bailey style arguments put forth by red fash. It’s the same pattern as the alt-right.
But yes, I was in favor of that peace. If you want to go back further, we could have avoided the whole civil war if the US didn’t back a coup, and it could have been smothered in the cradle if the right were purged from the parliament and army in 2014 or any time after, it could have ended without an invasion if Minsk II was simply enforced.
… and what about the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine remaining part of Ukraine? Is that not an option?
The russian-speaking parts of Ukraine are occupied by Russia. To change this would require a longer war and more death, all to annex regions that already voted once to join Russia after nearly a decade of civil war.
Given what was going on during the civil war, even if Russia unilaterally abandoned the territory, there would not be an end to the destruction.
I mean you’re not wrong that it wasn’t organic beyond a brief moment near the start of Maidan, before right-wing paramilitaries started sniping cops and massacring civilians and “volunteers” started showing up from both sides, but calling the civil war an invasion seems disingenuous.
Not that that justifies either side supporting right-wing militias in Ukraine.
I mean Russia wasn’t the only country with “volunteers” in Ukraine. I’d hardly say America invaded it, instead I say they backed factions within Ukraine, just as Russia did.
and what about the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine remaining part of Ukraine?
This could be an option but what the cost? You all couch generals understand tha not only Russian ppl but Ukranians lifes are being destroyed?
Do you undeestand that your option is to the deaths and war crimes keep on going right? Retaken these territories is almost free for you but not for Ucranians.
Also, no Communist I know defends Putin, Russia is an imperialist scum as US, UK and France that are using Ukraine as their war table.
You sound like a nazi supporter in 1939 supporting the annexation of the sudetenland. What do you mean the nazis should pull out of the formerly czech territories? I haven’t heard the russian government give any reason they should be there, that the nazis didn’t give.
OP thinks the west should continue to send weapons to Ukraine until Russia pulls out of all former Ukrainian territory, and putin is deposed and sent to the hague, and Russia is balkanized.
Most communists want it to end as soon as possible, with the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine currently occupied by Russia remaining either independent or in Russia if they vote that way.
This is usually misconstrued as supporting Russia.
Ah, so you were in favor of the initial peace plan proposed by Zelenskyy at the start of the invasion?
… and what about the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine remaining part of Ukraine? Is that not an option? Does democracy only count if it benefits Russian interests?
No, it’s simply recognizing the Motte-And-Bailey style arguments put forth by red fash. It’s the same pattern as the alt-right.
I’m not sure which instance you’re talking about.
Do you mean the one in March 2022 that was torpedoed by Boris Johnson, resulting in Zelenskyy adding such realistic conditions as Putin stepping down before talks can begin after the US/UK gave greater assurances of support.
But yes, I was in favor of that peace. If you want to go back further, we could have avoided the whole civil war if the US didn’t back a coup, and it could have been smothered in the cradle if the right were purged from the parliament and army in 2014 or any time after, it could have ended without an invasion if Minsk II was simply enforced.
The russian-speaking parts of Ukraine are occupied by Russia. To change this would require a longer war and more death, all to annex regions that already voted once to join Russia after nearly a decade of civil war.
Given what was going on during the civil war, even if Russia unilaterally abandoned the territory, there would not be an end to the destruction.
What is this cicil war you keep talking about?
The one in Ukraine following Maidan, from 2014 until the invasion.
The invasion started in 2014. It was not an organic movement.
I mean you’re not wrong that it wasn’t organic beyond a brief moment near the start of Maidan, before right-wing paramilitaries started sniping cops and massacring civilians and “volunteers” started showing up from both sides, but calling the civil war an invasion seems disingenuous.
Not that that justifies either side supporting right-wing militias in Ukraine.
So uh … Russia invaded the Sovereign nation of Ukraine.
It’s a civil war in the same way the USA invading Mexico would be a civil war.
I mean Russia wasn’t the only country with “volunteers” in Ukraine. I’d hardly say America invaded it, instead I say they backed factions within Ukraine, just as Russia did.
Russian-backed separatists in the Donbass.
“If the US didn’t back a coup”
“already voted once to join Russia”
lmao
And you wonder why no one takes you lot seriously.
Putin is genociding Ukraine.
stop supporting this, thanks.
This is incorrect. It was torpedoed by Ukrainians finding out about the Bucha massacre about a week earlier.
Who should have “enforced” Russia to move their soldiers out of Donbas and how?
This could be an option but what the cost? You all couch generals understand tha not only Russian ppl but Ukranians lifes are being destroyed?
Do you undeestand that your option is to the deaths and war crimes keep on going right? Retaken these territories is almost free for you but not for Ucranians.
Also, no Communist I know defends Putin, Russia is an imperialist scum as US, UK and France that are using Ukraine as their war table.
You sound like a nazi supporter in 1939 supporting the annexation of the sudetenland. What do you mean the nazis should pull out of the formerly czech territories? I haven’t heard the russian government give any reason they should be there, that the nazis didn’t give.
Only if all the non-Russian speaking parts of Russia get to vote to leave Russia as well.