I seriously cannot have any degree of nuanced conversation here.
Like I get it, we all know capitalism is bad, but it feels like every time I or anyone go towards discussing the steps that need to be taken to address current looming problems in the short term, someone has to jump in and shut it down with "capitalism bad >:[ " and tear down any idea presented because its not complete and total destruction of the current economic model.
The result just feels like an echo chamber where no actual solutions get presented other than someone posting whole ass dissertations on their 33-step (where 30/33 steps are about as vague as “we’ll just handle it”) plan to fully convert the world to an anarchist commune.
Edit: I still vastly prefer Lemmy and the fediverse and a whole, my complaint here is that many of you are TOO INTENSE. You blow up small scale discussion.
I notice there is definitely a lot of bad faith discussions happening, but there’s also a lot of us who are autistic lol
I don’t really agree. Sure, there’s shitty content everywhere, and there’s a couple of instances filled to the brim with edgy tankies possessing not only an IQ worthy of fenceposts, but a comprehension of Marxist theory on par with that the highest ranked Gulag camp keeper.
There’s also, however, other people. And more often than not I find that wherever there’s an interesting discussion to be had, people are having it. If someone annoys you it’s not harder than blocking them or their instance, and you can keep having your high brow discussions in peace and quiet.
Capitalism IS bad. You want solutions? Stop thinking any of them are going to involve capitalism.
If you need a limb removed because it threatens the whole body, we just remove the limb; we don’t try to save the limb at the expense of the body. Capitalism is the limb that needs to be removed.
This post is making fun of you specifically
That’s ok with me.
Yep, capitalism bad. Totally. Now what? What’s next, homie?
Yeah. It’s a moderately popular forum. You need to find a small community or instance to get nuance because places trend towards echo chambers after a certain size
/agree
Hot Take: I honestly don’t know if I’m right or not about this, but it feels like it’s a generational thing, and not just a Lemmy thing.
110% agree.
I could say “you know, I guess I can kinda see why people thought free market capitalism would work”
And someone will come out of the woodwork like “I can’t believe you think billionaires profiting off exploitation is actually a good idea”
First of all, no? Lol I’m saying I understand why people might think it would work, but for some reason forget that we as a people are generally selfish. Human nature and corruption and all that, people in power hoard power.
So basically you’re saying capitalism would work if human nature were completely different? Gee I wonder why people don’t take your views seriously.
The irony is palpable.
What if corporations didn’t count as people? If they didn’t worship the almighty dollar and put profits over people? Could capitalism work?
No idea, probably not, but I’m not an economist. And humans are notoriously bad at screwing up basically every form of government.
Also, that wasn’t my viewpoint, but you gotta admit that a lot of things in life would be better if human nature were completely (positively) different. Our lizard brains are wired for self preservation.
Wait, are you not being sarcastic…?
I find Lemmy significantly worse than reddit was in this regard. The number of times I’ve had my different (not unpopular outside of lemmy) opinion met immediately with personal insults is way higher here in the few months I’ve been here than my years with reddit.
I’ve just been learning not to engage on any of the lemmy propaganda areas, and that leaves me with a lot less active communities.
Lemmy is less ban happy than reddit, so I don’t mind throwing down in the comments. Do your part, fight against stupidity.
It’s not less ban happy at all.
Reddit will ban you from some subs just for commenting in other subs, no way it’s as bad here
Well, entire instances are banned (defederated), sometimes for barely any reasons. Sooo it’s even worse
I agree, and attribute that to the kind of people who would boycott Reddit forever, where the largest part of the lemmy population seems to originate from.
As much as I roll my eyes at the overuse of the term, lemmy is mostly comprised of the "woke"est of the reddit population.
People who make their politics their personality appear at both ends of the spectrum.
I seem to have a knack for pissing off fanboys. There’s no use using logic and reason.
I’ve found the same and sadly when I open Lemmy up I see the same half dozen articles still at the top of home. I’ve done back to Reddit on Mobile where there’s still a ton of new content.
It is quite often that responses seem to come from school age children who just discovered [insert edgy counter-culture ideology], and all of their responses and world views revolve around a rudimentary desire for that ideological utopia, with very little consideration given to sociology or economics. I suppose that is actually who’s responding a lot of the time. All real world considerations are discarded, and any issues you identify are perceived as stupid/shill/Trumper/dummy/capitalist drivel with zero consideration given.
Makes sense. !askmenover30@lemm.ee is getting a bit more active lately, might be a community for that age range
That’s precisely it. It’s manufactured outrage created by kids trying to look Worldly. The same about when on when I was in school- and it was every bit as cringy.
Theres truth to this but I think the general sentiment is archaic and overblown to the point it’s almost anachronistic.
It used to be that cohorts would grow more conservative as they aged - trying to keep everything like they know, essentially. This was true when we built societies that allowed generations to prosper.
We don’t see that seismic shift in millennials or the older zoomers. We see the opposite. Millennials onward are actively moving further left, not just appearing further left because the Overton window has shifted. If anything, the window shifting, casting those in the center as “left”, hasn’t pulled the left to center, but the other way around. It’s pushed the center to be more open to the lefts ideas. The left still convulses at the centers ideas, trust me (like student loans).
This is one of those opinions that everyone likes to assume is part of the silent majority but there’s just not that as much evidence to back up the confidence in which it’s announced - which, remember this, is 100% the main tactic of those in the center. This is the “end of history”, everything’s figured out, inability to see beyond themselves that makes leftists say neoliberalism (the prevailing media world view, center-right) is a cult or that liberalism is a mental illness -the former I agree with, the latter I do not.
Once this tone is dropped, its a mine field of red flags representing the death of nuance, that we’ve reached the limits of their rationality and critical thinking.
Just like breaking thru the rights MAGA cult, breaking the centers techno authoritarianism is like explaining 3D to Flatlanders. And if that sounds like gobbledygook to you, you’ve either been completely sheltered (and in that case, buckle up, things are waaaay worse than you were told growing up) or you’re fully indoctrinated into either ideologue. Blinders on. Kamakazi away.
I do notice and kinda agree that some users here are great at arguing about theory, but can’t see beyond that for practical application.
Agreed, often if you check the post history of folks like that you’ll see that they’re still in school.
Did we just have a different post on this topic a couple days ago? I can dig up my reply from the last thread but basically Lemmy and the fediverse is similarly bad for political discourse as the other social platforms because of the (semi)anonymous of social media and the fact we don’t really have the mental bandwidth needed to devote time to have nuanced conversations with strangers.
Nuh-uh doodoo head!
They also have a reddit-scale visceral hatred for religion lmao
Religion is fucking bad, though: without hyperbole, it is and always has been a scourge on our collective existence.
But religious people aren’t always bad and that seems to get lost on here.
It’s hard to trust religious people. I grew up a fundie christian and nearly every Christian I’ve ever known has hurt me with their faith. Trusting religious people feels like repeating a trust fall with people who routinely decide not to catch you. And then people get mad at me for not wanting to engage anymore.
Are all religious people bad? Of course not. Has my experience been one that has constantly affirmed that religious people, namely christians, cand be trusted? Absolutely. So what am I supposed to do in this case?
You don’t have to trust them. But understand that the majority of them are trying to do the right thing, they’ve just been deeply misled. You have to view the essential goodness in them, which has been hijacked by a giant lie.
That’s where I’m at. I don’t trust them and I don’t get close to people I don’t trust.
I grew up a fundie christian and nearly every Christian I’ve ever known has hurt me with their faith
I think your problem is with fundamentalists. People whose minds allow no room for nuance. That’s not healthy.
Most religious people use their faith very personally. I don’t know any crazy fundamentalists, despite knowing people who go to church multiple times a week.
YEC’s are cringe
Not knowing fundamentalism lap blinds you to the fundamental realist nature of nearly all religion. At its base, it all has the same exclusivity that ultimately says ‘you’re not good enough and you need my secret to be good enough’. All the major religions are predicated on evangelizing and growing the fold. All of them. And all of them damn you when you don’t join.
Knowing fundamentalism opens your eyes to the fact that every religious person, intentionally or not, looks down at you for not agreeing. They see themselves as superior because they found the secret. It’s inherent to the belief, even when the believer is a good person. I’ve known as many non-fundamentalist religious people as I’ve known fundies, and they’re all the same at their core. They are in, you are out. They are saved, you are damned. They are blessed, you are cursed. They are ‘us’, you are ‘other’.
My problem was born of fundamentalism, but it showed me the fundamentalist nature of it all.
That problem exists in all groups of people. There are atheist fundamentalists too. You will see them loudly announcing their beliefs at the same volume as their religious cousins. Don’t tell them that though, it just makes them louder.
Religion is not the problem; a lack of nuance is. Just because you personally have figured out that God exists or doesn’t exist or whatever, that doesn’t mean I want to hear it yelled at me.
You went a bit left field with your comment but I have a few thoughts.
‘Atheist fundamentalist’ is a non-sequitor. Atheists aren’t a coalition or monolith with established beliefs or practices. They’re just people who don’t believe in god or a higher power or spirituality or whatever. They have no unifying dogma or ritual. There’s no cabal of atheists that decided that they know some secret truth, or that you are damned or cursed, or inherently lesser than, or deserve fewer rights because you believe. There are assholes out there, but the lack of organization is the key here.
Comparing loud obnoxious atheists to organized, systemic, and core religious principles and groups is apples and oranges. Not to mention that the lack of belief is not ‘belief’.
All that aside, I have never seen someone on a street corner with a bullhorn ‘preaching’ about non-belief. That’s not to say they don’t exist, I’m positive there are some obnoxious people that do it. But I have seen hundreds of Christians, Jews (certain sects, usually zionists), and people of other faiths on street corners, rest stops, and all other manner of places telling me I’m going to hell if I don’t join the club and conform. You’re presenting these as two equal problems when they’re not.
Sure I don’t want anyone telling me what I should or shouldn’t believe, but there is a preponderance of evidence that you’ll be assaulted by one and not the other. It’s like being more concerned about being attacked by a shark than struck by lightning when you live in South Dakota. Will you ever go to the beach? Probably a few times in your life, but the likelihood of being attacked by a shark is infinitesimal compared to your risk of being struck by lightning. Let’s address the real issues in these conversations and not build straw men to defend the vile.
Christianity doesn’t think that, basically everyone is damned and depraved equally, the “secret” doesn’t make you good enough, as it’s impossible to be good enough.
In fact they do believe that and you’re splitting hairs.
They believe that humans are inherently evil and can never be good enough (including themselves). Unless/until they accept Jesus and are washed by his blood in order to be made worthy.
You’re talking about inherent nature vs redeemed.
Source: 30 years in the church, 4 year degree from Christian university which includes comprehensive theology, and a 1 year internship with a fundie group that focused entirely on evangelical theology and ideology.
Then I can argue that Athiesm is worse, if that’s the case.
Go ahead. And it’s ‘atheism’.
Because you’re deliberately trying to lead people away from God and telling people that they can trust their carnal desires instead.
Oh man, you got me there. My poor soul!
How about I do the thoughts, and you do the prayers?
See how you sound now?
I’m OK with this one.
Yea, I saw couple of people that want to discuss religion and faith in the civil manner but the majority is drowning out the conversation. I would love to have a safe space for discussing such topics but I already have couple of communities that I contribute as a sole person and I am unwilling to create another one.
Would be nice if there were enough religious people on Lemmy to form a functional community. Probably one of the few things I miss about Reddit. Although r/Christianity had many athiests just coming in to dunk on Christians and was very poorly moderated, unfortunately.
I find it more concerning that you appear to be a bootlicker for religion
I find it more concerning that you’d judge people for not prioritising 70-90 or so years of their life over eternity.
Would people hate religion if religion wasn’t constantly weaponized against individuals?
First day on the internet?
That’s not an argument, you’re just contradicting me
I think this is mostly because it’s a smaller community overall so when you’re in those politically minded subreddits, it’s all the same opinion. I think it’ll change as lemmy grows and more people with diverse experiences and outlooks join the discussions.
While I agree, I will add that therein lies part of the problem. Many people will see those extreme reactions, decide no one is willing to hear any sort of dissenting opinion, and write off lemmy as a whole :(
Yup. That’s why I started up a new community:
To quote our pinned thread:
Why did I make this community? Well, mostly in response to the rest of Lemmy and the way many otherwise interesting discussion threads fall apart into downvoting and groupthink.
I don’t like people making baseless accusations. I defend people on all sides when people are wrong about their opposition. I hate it when people think they know what others think and project incorrect (and often evil) bullshit on each other. It’s important to be maintain solid reasoning and conclusions, not just one or the other.
I hate people being wilfully wrong because their group fetishizes a certain angle of the truth instead of the boring reality of the situation.
Ideas are important and I don’t feel we can get out of the current shitty slump we’re in with political discourse unless we are able to clearly articulate ourselves and discuss the world we’re in.
You (and all of you who feel the way you do) are welcome.
Subscribed. Would regardless of my thoughts lol, seems like a genuinely good layout for a community.
