I had to walk out of the library the other day. I was wearing noise canceling headphones and listening to music at a normal volume and yet a mom with three kids drove me out due to the fact they were running around and yelling like it was their house.
I travel and this is the new normal at libraries throughout the U.S. Many libraries now have an open area children’s section where the kids can play on the floor and be as loud as they want.
I do use study rooms at the library but not all libraries have them and a closed glass door does not block all the noise from a screaming baby/toddler.
Libraries are a shared space and in the past used to be quiet. Now in the effort to be inclusive to everyone they don’t enforce any noise rules because they want those moms and their screaming kids to come visit the library.
And of course, you cannot complain to anyone about this because if you do so you are a Karen and no one will care and then they’ll tell you “if you don’t like it you can leave” This is society now…everyone does what they want with no regard for others.
And dads.
But as long as they’re quiet, or are trying to, it’s fine. The problem is bad parenting.
My library put a toddler play area next to the non fiction section. They make no attempt to stop any noise. The study areas have noisy teenagers and people watching videos with the sound on. Noone seems to care.
Libraries are not at all the quiet places I grew up with and I guess people like me just have to accept that we are not welcome. I resent it but it seems parents can no longer be expected to teach their children to be quiet and respect others using a space.
As a mom with a toddler, I love my local library. We go for toddler story hour or just to explore new books. He’s a voracious reader and has lost his patience with the books we have at home so having a huge range of children’s books to pick from has been great for “dialing in” to what his reading level is at week after week. It’s been a wonderful resource and the librarians know him by name and I’ve been able to meet and network with local moms.
Toddler story hour does have chatter and activities and songs and general noise but I personally have never seen a kid running around wild like you described. Not to say I don’t believe it’s ever happened, but that this supposed pandemic of ill behavior and dreadful permissiveness that is painted in your post and the comments sure has a “get off my lawn” perennial quality to it. I acknowledge my obligation to teach my (and when appropriate, others’) kids how to behave in a public indoor place, but there always have been and always will be bad parents.
From my experience, libraries are becoming a secular community place. Ours has a crafting club, lego group, gardening group, and runs D&D games as well as the kid activities. The children’s area is separate but it’s not a huge building. The way I see it, you could be just as mad at a D&D group getting excited by a game or a bunch of Lego spilling on the floor, because you’re sharing the space with others. Regardless of a library’s stereotypical sound profile of hushed silence, it’s still a public space and people will be making noises in it. A one time occurrence of kids being noisy is annoying, but so are coughs and sneezes and loud typing and books thumping and other people in general.
I am absolutely fine with a “toddler reading hour”. But I agree with OP that a library should take reasonable steps to allow to function for everyone. Even when this impedes some peoples’ desire to be loud.
If a library allows or even supports as loud activity, it should provide an adequate space for these, and adequate here would mean that these activities should happen in their own space and acoustically seperated from the rest.
If there is not enough space, those groups would have to share, yes. But a toddler reading group in the morning, some school children activities in the afternoon, and a D&D session in the evening should be able to get along.
And whoever uses the library PCs with loudspeakers instead of headphones should be kicked out immediately. Why on earth does that PC even have speakers in the first place?
If OP made a post that said “people in public places should be respectful of others” or “libraries aren’t a place for screaming” that would hardly be an unpopular opinion. So if you’re fine with toddler reading hour and the concept of young kids being welcome in libraries, then you and I are in agreement.
OP explicitly said moms and young kids shouldn’t feel like they have a place in the library, on the basis of a bad experience, which I don’t agree with (but is at least appropriate for the sub).
A one time occurrence of kids being noisy is annoying, but so are coughs and sneezes and loud typing and books thumping and other people in general.
If you think kids running around screaming, and people sneezing and “thumping books” are anywhere near comparable, you urgently need to book an appointment with an audiologist to make sure your hearing damage isn’t permanent.
Or, it could be simple Stockholm syndrome. You’ve become so accustomed to the constant assault that you’ve forgotten how unbearably disruptive kids can be.
I’d support tax funding for library outlets in playgrounds where the little shriek machines can scream to their heart’s content. Libraries should be places where people can read without undo disruption.
These hypothetical screaming wild children running rampant through the halls of America’s libraries are apparently sparing the libraries I attend, because as I said, I’ve never seen children acting out like that and I attend literal toddler events, with an actual toddler regularly. Note that they didn’t say “screaming shouldn’t be allowed in libraries”, they said toddlers. If OP can’t handle the sounds of toddlers at the library (which, again, I witness regularly) playing with wooden toys, doing puzzles, making crafts, having books read to them, then OP should find somewhere more private and not be mad at the public for using a public space.
It sounds like, rather the eras old horrible pandemic of the ever worsening “youth”, OP had a bad experience one day with some unusually poorly behaved kids and rather than say something to the parent, or the librarian, or hell even the kids, they decided to play out a hypothetical worst-case-scenario in their mind and then use it as an excuse for inaction. Then they came here to rant impotently and make it sound like some wide-spread problem it isn’t. And I just don’t think that’s a good enough reason to try to make me feel unwelcome.
OP had a bad experience one day
Do you have a reading comprehension problem? OP wrote: “I travel and this is the new normal at libraries throughout the U.S.”
That indicates more than one, understand?
The whole issue is about rudeness and people having no consideration for others. The next time you go to a movie theater and there’s a baby crying or people who won’t shut up I hope you remember what you wrote above. You sound very entitled and selfish.
OP provided one example, and then used it as a sweeping generalization that directly conflicts with my lived experiences. Do I just attend uniquely peaceful libraries with uniquely well behaved toddlers? Maybe I’m living in a haven of quietude and utopian standards of parenting and never knew. Have you gone to any public libraries lately and experienced what OP describes? It should be easy to if it’s an epidemic worthy of telling me and my son we don’t belong there.
Of course I agree that we should all be considerate of each other and respect others’ rights to enjoy public spaces as they’re intended, but that’s not the title of the post, is it?
Por que no los dos? My local library has different sections for toddlers, elementary schoolers, young adults, and adults and I think that’s how it should be.
por que no los dos
why not bothCan someone explain how this started? I just occurred to me it takes longer to type out (30% more characters), and means exactly the same thing. It’s not even a borrowed phrase that adds some subtle meaning that we don’t have a native idiom for. It’s literally just saying something randomly in another language.
I’m not offended by it; heck, I’ve done it myself multiple times. I just don’t know why, or how it started, and it suddenly struck me as bizarre.
Can someone explain how this started?
Oh. Advertisements. That makes sense.
“QUIET! THIS IS A LIBRARY!” - Lori-Beth Denberg
Having children enters one into a contract with society. Society allows that you can have children. You agree to try your best to raise them to be a net good for society (or at least not harmful to society). People have forgotten this.
Libraries are third spaces. They’re one of the last third spaces left. I fully agree that they should be quiet spaces for learning. But to accomplish that, we need to create more third spaces for other purposes.
This is society now…everyone does what they want with no regard for others.
When the universe does not align with your expectations, which is wrong? the universe or your expectations? You made the mistake of assuming the library was a quiet place. That’s wrong. Fix yourself. But if you want the library to be of quiet place, like I do, help to fix society so it can be.
There should be areas setup for kids or certain timeslots where it’s encouraged. But it’s also a case of parenting, when I was little I was made very aware how I need to be quiet when I was taken in there. You have to teach your kids respect.
I’m probably biased, but absolutely agree, and take it further.
It used to be parents would take their kids outside and punish them, and I’m sure many are, but I personally have never seen it happen. Libraries are egregious, but other places too.
I get it. You’re tired, you’re overworked, parenting is hard. But they are you’re responsibility. Libraries are not childcare. Letting them run through grocery stores is not parenting. Sitting in a nice restaurant letting you child scream is not parenting. It is the parents job to teach them when it is and isn’t okay to run around and scream, and if they can’t handle it that’s fine, but they don’t belong there yet. Take them outside. That’s your job.
I still remember I was screaming and screwing around in church and my mom told my dad to take me outside. I remember because it was well over 90 degrees out and we’re sitting in the car. I finally chilled out and said “dad I’m hot”. I’ll never forget what he said
Yeah well I’m not too but it’s you’re fault we’re both out here.
It’s not comfortable being a parent, but that’s the role you’re in.
Yeah, but I think part of the issue where this is common now and not before is that children were allowed to be a lot more feral back in the day. There is an expectation that children should be watched by a parent at all times, and that is causing kids to build up a lot of pent up energy they can’t release.
I would agree. In my mind, let’s think from the parents perspective. Kids are pent up and need to get out. Why not… Go to a park or a playground and run around for an hour? Play games at home if the weather is terrible? If you’re trying to encourage reading then have them burn off that energy first and then go read.
Unstructured time was crucial to my upbringing and I don’t know why parents are so afraid to let their kids run around a park when they are wound up.
I don’t know why parents are so afraid to let their kids run around a park when they are wound up.
Probably because they are afraid people are going to call the cops on them.
Is this a thing? Why?
The presence of unwatched children in some parts of the US has gone from a common occurrence to a novelty that indicates bad parenting.
They don’t have to be unwatched just because they’re at the park.
I mean I think it can be both. Parents are tired, but they also aren’t parenting and disciplining as much. Actions don’t have consequences as much anymore. Look at the amount of teachers who have left because kids aren’t being parented at home and they aren’t getting any support for help from the administration or parents. I don’t know what changed when but as a parent I’m tired yes but that’s not an excuse. if my kid is acting up we are taking him outside.
I mean I think it can be both. Parents are tired, but they also aren’t parenting and disciplining as much
Yeah, because if you do more than speak sternly at a kid nowadays, you get child services called on you.
take their kids outside and punish them
Lol ok
Bad parents are a thing. Children screaming loudly in an indoor environment should be corrected.
I don’t think your opinion is unpopular. There are lots of people who will agree with you that libraries should be absolutely silent.
But I don’t agree. There should be space for kids to learn to love books. They might noiser that you would like, but kids who love books are a benefit to our world.
Libraries are a community meeting place, one of the last good third spaces left. If you want perfect silence go home.
Libraries are not your unpaid office space.
I agree that there should be space for kids to learn to love books, but I don’t think OP is at all unreasonable for wanting there to be a part of the library that’s quiet.
Libraries are not your unpaid office space.
I agree, they are a space OP pays for. They aren’t an office space, but they ought to be kept suitable for tasks like reading, research, note taking, poetry writing, and math homework.
Aren’t libraries mostly funded by local taxes? Since OP is traveling around the country, they’re probably not paying for the local library. Or at least a much smaller portion than the local kids’ parents.
It’s unfortunate if a library cannot provide both a space for children and a quiet area for adults, but if they have to choose they should prioritize the local community’s needs over the out-of-towner’s.
Granted I missed the part about OP traveling all over the country. But don’t you think local community members also value quiet?
It’s not true that libraries can’t provide both, most can and do. Some can’t, but that’s a design flaw that’s reasonable to complain about.
I’m sure the local community does value quiet. But unfortunately we don’t have any feedback from the local community. We only have OP’s points of view. So I’m left to wonder whether this family was actually being disruptive by the local community’s standards or if OP is blowing this out of proportion. If it’s the former, then OP could have done everyone in that library a favor by politely bringing it up with the library staff instead of just complaining about it online. If instead the problem is that OP has different standards than the community does, then that’s just too bad for OP because they’re not the one actually paying for the library.
If you want perfect silence go home
Remember that you said that the next time you go to a movie theater and there is a baby crying or people who will not shut up.
One of the many reasons I haven’t been to a theater since 2012.
Yeah, I had to pay to go to the movie theatre. The library is free.
At the end of the day, there will always be stupid people who make bad decisions. This comes down on the theaters to either enforce a “no babies” policy, or have one of those little sound proofed side rooms like churches.
How small was this library? My town’s local library is more than big enough that I would be able to move to a different room or floor or section to escape noise, and they had a designated children’s area downstairs. Even in smaller towns I’d imagine the average library has more than a single room. I live in Canada but I wouldn’t think it’d be that much different in most places in the US. Heck even my university library had multiple floors and was more than big enough to escape noise in one location especially with noise cancelling headphones.
I am a parent of a 6 year old and I would be absolutely mortified if he acted like that in the library. I am sorry on behalf of all of us parents that actually try.
Libraries should be quiet but I strongly disagree that they shouldn’t cater for kids, libraries are great for kids I take my toddler to our library fairly often and she’s learn to love books because of it.
The situation is just a shitty parent not an issue with libraries catering for kids.
I think you need to have both spaces; one for children to get into learning and one for adults to have a quiet environment.
I agree that a library should provide a quiet area.
My public library is exactly like that. Its made up of two adjacent buildings, one mainly for children, and the other for adults. The only problem is that both are fairly quiet because very few people go there.
I’m not discounting your experience and I haven’t been in a public library more than a couple of times in maybe the last 35 years, but they were some of my favorite places growing up and I still help out by donating to them and such.
All of the ones I’ve been in have had the children’s section physically separated from the adult section by something like the lobby containing the librarian’s desk. Call it about 30-40 feet of space. Furthermore, the kid’s section wasn’t an “anything goes” kind of area - it was treated as an opportunity for kids to learn proper library behavior. The section had its own librarian who wouldn’t not hesitate to shush noisy kids.
So, while I don’t think yours is an unpopular opinion, I am hoping the experience is less common than you’ve seen.
Also, university libraries are often open to anyone (although you won’t be able to borrow books), so that might be an alternate option. They might not have public WiFi though.
Most libraries I’ve been to, the children’s section is on its own floor
Agreed, and it matches my experience. I go to libraries pretty frequently and there’s always a children’s section, and the non-children areas get little to no noise from children.
The public libraries where I live are exactly as you described. I’ve never heard the kids from the adult section.
Where I live the kids section is on a separate floor altogether. Not sure about this trend OP is describing, I don’t travel around visiting libraries though.
