Donald Trump’s campaign spokesman defended Trump using “vermin” to describe his enemies, while historians compared his language to Hitler, Mousselini.

  • aidan@lemmy.worldM
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    10 months ago

    Those conclusions are beyond reasonable doubt.

    No that’s literally not what they found, because it was not a criminal trial. That wasn’t the burden of proof. He may be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but a civil court is not legally capable of proving that.

    • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
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      10 months ago

      Trump was not criminally convicted as his rape trial was a civil case, not criminal.

      Those jurors found Trump responsible for digital rape that in New york is defined as sexual assault, that the judge clarifiedas rape because trump violated a woman sexually, the new york legal term is just too narrow here for the finding because he used his fingers to violate her vagina.

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/

      Still rape.

      Your doubt is your own, but seems unreasonable.

      • aidan@lemmy.worldM
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        10 months ago

        I’m talking about the legal term, reasonable doubt. To prove something beyond a reasonable doubt in a court is a different process. One that isn’t done in a civil court, therefore it can’t prove it. That doesn’t mean he isn’t guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, just that a civil court can’t prove that.

        • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
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          10 months ago

          So you’re just agreeing with what everyone else has clarified, that this is a civil, not criminal trial.

          The jury and judge found Trump liable for rape. This finding is beyond a reasonable doubt.

          No, baby hands is not criminally liable beyond a reasonable doubt, he is civilly liable for rape beyond a reasonable doubt according to judge and jury.

          • PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works
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            10 months ago

            No. He means that a civil trial uses different evidentiary standards. In a civil suit the standard is “preponderance of the evidence”, while a criminal trial requires proof “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

            It’s factually wrong to say it’s beyond a reasonable doubt due to the civil suit.

            • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
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              10 months ago

              You’re narrowly insisting on a verdict of criminal liability versus actual liability, which you aren’t going to find in a civil case.

              I am referring to actual responsibility. I have no reasonable doubt that Trump is a rapist. The jury found a Trump liable for rape, and the judge clarified that Trump is liable for rape.

              No matter how much you like this guy, Trump was found to be a rapist.

              • PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works
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                10 months ago

                I do not like the guy. I’m explaining that beyond a reasonable doubt may be something you feel is appropriate, but it’s not because of the civil suit, because that’s not the standard of evidence in a civil suit.

                I’m comfortable saying he was a rapist way before the civil trial.

                • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
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                  10 months ago

                  You’re still just repeating and agreeing with everybody else in this thread who’s saying that this is a civil, not a criminal trial. I guess good job if that’s what you’re going for?

                  That is correct. This is a civil case. Not a criminal case.

                  The jurors, reasonably, do not doubt his liability of rape. The judge, reasonably, does not doubt that Trump is liable of rape.

                  You’re just being precious about a term that is not exclusively used in jurisprudence.

                  Trump was found liable of rape beyond a reasonable doubt.

                  • PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works
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                    10 months ago

                    No, you’re being intentionally obtuse and awkwardly stubborn and nobody knows why but you.

                    Why use the exact same wording as a legal standard? You could have said “he’s a rapist, without a shadow of a doubt” and we’d have all known what you meant. Instead you decide you’re going to die on this weird ass ambiguous hill.