There’s this rising narrative going around that if you ask specifically for a CIS partner, you’re a transphobe. That could be true for some people but it’s not fundamentally related to bigotry. Moreover, this narrative, the “if you only want a CIS mate then that is prejudice” is trampling on one of the most important rights a person can have: the right to choose who they want to get intimate with.
First of all, transmen are in fact men and transwomen are in fact women. Let’s get that out of the way. This isn’t a foot in the door for “trans this really isn’t that” narratives. What this is about it is the freedom to choose who you want to be intimate with. That right is sancrosanct, it is absolutely inviolable.
And yes, there’s plenty of issues that make transgender dating a special issue. If someone reveals their TG status they can be open to hate crimes and even deadly violence. However all marginalized groups are special in their own way. As a black man I don’t think it’s racist if a woman says she doesn’t want to date a black man. I face oppression, too. My class is special in its own way. One group isn’t more special than the other. None of us have the right to force ourselves upon those who don’t want to be intimate with us, even by omitting who we really are.
Really, if you have to deceive or hide who you are in order to date someone, do you really want to date them? I wouldn’t. That’s not fair to you and you’re denying them their right to choose who they want. What do you think will happen when the person wants a CIS mate and they discover the truth? They’re going to get pissed and dump you. Now you have to shame them into staying with you: “If you loved me for real this wouldn’t bother you”… that’s not going to convince anyone. They’re either going to leave, or they’ll resent you forever. That’s just how it is. You can be mad at that but that’s about as effective as protesting the rising of the sun. There’s just no way to win once you’ve gone down that road.
“I want a CIS mate” is not the same as “trans women are not women” - one is a preference, the other is harmful prejudice. On the flip side CIS people who do date trans people shouldn’t be shamed for their choices either. A man should be free to date a trans woman and not catch flak about it. Trans people should be able to be openly trans and not face hate speech or threats to their well-being. This, without any exception whatsoever.
The fundamental fact is when you shame or worse abrogate people’s right to choose who they want to get intimate with, it’s not going to end well for you. All you’re going to get is people who resent being coerced or bullied to date people they don’t want to. And that’s not something the country, or the world, will ever put up with. Except that right now, most people don’t imagine they can be labeled a transphobe just for wanting a CIS mate. And unpopular opinion: that should be nipped in the bud.
Locked as transphobia seems to be pretty common in the comments.
First of all, transmen are in fact men and transwomen are in fact women.
Sweet, then you have no problem and are open to dating anyone in your preferred gender.
No, I am not open to date the vast majority of folks in my preferred gender. Age, language, whether they’re a good person, shared hobbies, shared culture are all factors. Why isn’t cisness a legitimate factor?
It is. You just can’t virtue signal about how everyone is equal while expressing such a preference.
1: not unpopular
2: if this is a scenario you are actually seeing in real life, you should find better people to hang out with.
It’s stuff I encounter online. But stuff online festers for years, and then erupts in real life. MAGA and QANON, for instance, was festering from USENET in the 1990s and forums thereafter. I watched it happen. Everyone ignored it, and now look where we are. MAGA of course is a whole different scale of true horror but still. This mentality I’m mentioning is festering. All cancers begin this way.
I saw some people online saying Nazis were good.
Unpopular opinion: I think Nazis are bad.
I doubt there will be very many trans people out there that are willing to date somebody without revealing that they are trans. When that eventually comes out it would be a VERY dangerous situation for that person. Anyone that wouldn’t care you could tell before the first date. If you can’t tell them, it’s a BAD idea not to tell them
I think the trickiest part is that trans people generally have spent a lot more time thinking about their sexuality and identity than most cis people. Most cis people (or at least cishet) have put basically 0 thought into it. They cant articulate better than “straight”, and if you probe further they would just say “I like men/women”. They cant fully identifyor explain what it is about the opposite sex specifically they are attracted to because they often havent had to think about it ever. And if genitals are a factor in that attraction, then it may be pretty important. Some people may be able to see past that. Some may not. But we shouldn’t force someone to date somebody they arent attracted to, even if they cant eloquently fully explain why they arent attracted.
Not providing this anecdote as a rebuttal, just as food for thought since I’ve barely seen anyone mention this.
I have put a lot of thought into my sexuality/identity, but regardless of all of those thoughts my articulation will boil down to:
I want bio kids, until we can modify the genetic material of eggs/sperm so that two people of the same biological gender can have a biological child, my only option is someone with the opposite reproductive organs.
It doesn’t matter how much I am attracted to someone, I won’t roll loaded dice on having kids. If my partner and I discovered when we finally try to have kids that one or both of us is sterile, then so be it — but I’d like the dice we roll to not have a known outcome ahead of time.
Uhm, those platforms don’t filter by your sexual preference?
Uhm, yes they do. It’s one of the preferences you set for your profile.
So why do they have to ask for a CIS partner?
A trans woman will specify she is female on a given platform. She is likely to have different genitals than a person would expect, that person having only been with cis women. Hope that clears it up.
on the flip side, people should be able to say they want a trans partner.
real talk though, no one should be deceiving anyone if they plan to start a healthy relationship with someone, period.
I’m stealth trans in public and don’t feel it’s necessary to come out to every one i meet or even work with. But if I’m flirting with someone or know someone has an interest in me, I respect them enough to let them know.
it all comes back to the idea that you don’t need to know what someone’s genitals look like unless you plan on fucking them.
I think I that’s a concept that cis straight people don’t get. You don’t come out once. You have a big coming out, once, to friends and family. Then every new person you meet, you decide whether to tell them outright, whether to subtly tell them, or whether you don’t tell them. Each time, you’re considering if you’ll meet them again, if it serves a purposes of it feels like hiding, your safety, whether it will affect their opinion of you and so be to your disadvantage etc. It’s tiring.
Is it not more tiring to come out to someone you’re more emotionally invested in, though?
There’s obviously the safety issues that the OP mentioned, but wouldn’t it be easier to not have to deal with an eventual reveal?
Why invest the time and energy into someone who has that much higher a chance that they’ll deny you when you come out?
Yes, but then you would have to come out to everyone first time.
Hi, here’s your coffee. Thanks, I’m trans.
Hi X, meet my friend Y. Hi Y, I’m gay, my name is X, nice to meet you. Umm, I’m not sure I needed to know that.
What about a work colleague that you can’t avoid but they are new and you don’t know how they will react.
That’s the point. The big coming out is for people you are emotionally invested in at that point in time. Then you have to make snap decisions and considered decisions for every new person forever.
I have a pretty small sample size, but it feels like the next generation doesn’t feel that way. My 13-year-old daughter is queer and so are some of her friends and it doesn’t occur to them most of the time that her peers might judge them for it. We did have to take my daughter out of school for severe bullying- because they were calling her a furry (she committed the sin of wearing spiked collars) and spreading rumors that she was racist. She got nothing for being queer.
She’s doing an English project right now and she had to pick an event from history and talk about how it impacted today and I suggested Stonewall. She was pretty baffled about the whole thing. She understood conceptually that being queer was so hated and so dangerous in the 1960s, but she really had no idea.
I told her yesterday about how, even when I was in middle school in 1989-1991, there were no kids out of the closet. When I got to high school, there were a handful of very brave kids who were out and they got beaten up a lot. There was one trans girl and that was because she could pass and didn’t let most people know. Same-gendered couples were not allowed at prom. Even kids (and teachers who could get fired for it) who were undeniably queer hid it from everyone. Two people in my friend circle who were so gay they were on fire didn’t admit it until college. Both times, it was a “well, duh” moment when they came out, but that’s how scared they were to come out.
And, of course, if they did come out, they couldn’t get married if they found someone they loved.
She doesn’t know how bad it all was even when I was a kid and I’m so glad of that. I just hope Trump doesn’t turn it all around.
on the flip side, people should be able to say they want a trans partner.
Yes, absolutely, I mentioned that part already. Freedom goes both ways. No one should be shamed for choosing to date a trans partner.
Chasers suck for trans people big time. This is a logical fallacy. It’s different if a trans person says they’re only doing T4T to a cis person.
Can you elaborate on this? Is it the usual fetishism (similar to what Asian women often experience) or is it different?
what Asian women often experience
You got me laughing and thinking at once.
Just married my Filipina. First Asian I ever dated. Didn’t seek Asian women, had zero expectations.
I know a lot of guys want a tiny, submissive, tradwife (fuck me I loathe that word). “Ew, gross! Not me, not EVER!”, I thought. Well… here we are.
She had me watching Filipina videos last month, to help me understand what Filipina women want, help me understand her culture. “Old white guys?! Hell fucking yes all day long!”, is what I got out of it.
“So what I gather is that I can go to the Philippines and trade you in on a hot 19-yo that will worship the ground I walk on?” 🤣
She’s said, straight up, that she always wanted a white American. She was also so she was afraid I was fetishizing her as an “exotic” Asian. Go figure. 🤷🏻♂️
It’s been a very strange, and lovely, experience. I’m trying to help her be more independent, show her that we’re equals, financially and emotionally. Sometimes it’s a challenge.
Yes, I can feed myself and wash my own clothes, back off a bit. But she feels like it’s her role to provide, and I’m taking from her by not taking from her. Fuck me, I’ve dated Mississippi girls that could strap on a ball gown, get their makeup game on, change their oil and shoot like Annie Oakly. This is all new to me.
Sorry. I don’t have anyone else to talk about this with and your comment got me thinking. And laughing at how strange life sometimes turns out.
I think your gut feeling is correct, you were in fact being fetishized by the videos that she showed you. I have known Asian women who get red in the face at the whole “I love white guys” thing. I know white men who cringe at other white men and their obsession with Asian women. Fetishization is coming from both sides.
Glad that you feel able to open up here. I hope you and anyone else who stays open and tolerant to new ideas will have a safe space here.
Is it always cringe/disrespectful when someone has something about them that I love more than other people love and I tell them that?
Personally I agree. Personally one of the biggest factors that makes me want to get into a relationship in the first place is more or less to make a kid. Sure adoptions are a thing but like I just don’t see myself getting turned on by sex with someone who doesn’t have a vagina. The most I can see her doing for me is a hand job. Shallow yea but that’s just kinda biology. I can’t see anyone making me enjoy a trans woman anymore than you can make a gay dude enjoy a cis woman. And all that’s not even mentioning I live in a place where parents still pressure their children to make grandkids.
A transwoman has a vagina post-op. But again this part is irrelevant IMHO. Freedom to choose is sancrosanct. If you date a transwoman it should also be with zero consequence.
Forgive me, but I’d say a vagina, or lack thereof, is pretty damned important to most of us.
If a woman started out with a penis? Meh, I might go for that. But I certainly want to engage in “normal” sex, and there’s nothing wrong with that. And I’d think you agree.
I have some thoughts.
Are you asking what will get you the best results? I’d be offput by any guy who said “no trans ladies, no black ladies, no fat ladies” even though I’d probably be their target demographic as a fit, thin, white lady. Because I’d assume that guy was a jerk, probably a racist and I don’t want to deal with that. So maybe you don’t want to be rude about it.
But I don’t think it’s wrong at all to have orientations and preferences. Almost nobody is absolutely attracted only to personality. You are probably picky beyond just wanting cis people, and it’s not a small detail IMO, it’s similar to a chronic medical condition because it requires ongoing care, not everyone is prepared for that.
Just put “want to one day have kids” in your profile, then get over it.
Adoption is a thing…
Your first mistake is using dating apps.
No one actually does this.
Do you think trans woman WANT to date someone who isnt into them? No. Stop being cringe.
You say this but it’s been a problem for myself and friends dating. After talking for a while I find out somehow and then they’re all like “this isn’t how I wanted you to find out!” Uh, how about being honest and upfront and letting me give informed consent?
99% of all trans women will absolutely tell you up front that they are trans bc they aren’t trying to get unalived by someone in a trans panic. Which btw is still a legal defense in over half the states of this country
one is a preference
Maybe for some. But for most it’s not even a preference it is a sexual orientation. A preference can be negotiated. A sexual orientation is just the way that you are.
Honest question, why is there a difference between preference and orientation? If I’m ordering pizza and ask you for your topping preference, you’d tell me pepperoni, for instance. You don’t get to choose what your preference is, it’s just what you prefer. There may be reasons you have that preference (the taste of pepperoni, you don’t like mushrooms, etc.), but it’s not a conscious decision to prefer pepperoni, it’s just what you like. I couldn’t negotiate with you to make you like mushrooms over pepperoni, it’s something you have to discover on your own.
I guess what I’m getting at is that I don’t understand why there’s a difference.
I suppose it’s the difference between preferring not to add mushrooms and losing your appetite when the mushroom goes in your mouth.
I don’t really think that breaks the analogy; there are people who would refuse to eat mushrooms on pizza altogether, there are people who would not be unhappy with the mushrooms, and there are people who would only want mushrooms. In other words, a spectrum, right?
Well you don’t identify with preferring pepperoni, while you do with being attracted to men or women or both. So that’s a difference, although maybe not a fundamental one – I see your question as absolutely fair. Maybe we use two words – preference and orientation – to describe two different experiences, one implying identification and the other not.
Thanks for the thoughtful response! I guess the whole “identify with” part is what is tripping me up here. I don’t live my life thinking about how I am attracted to whatever, I just am. Do you have more of an explanation for me on what it means for other people? Not trying to be inflammatory, just want to understand, because I’ve been curious about the “preference” thing for a while.
“I want to announce that I have no intention of allowing myself to get to know a certain type of person”
“Why are people treating me like I’m a certain type of person, who people wouldn’t like to get to know?”
Getting to know someone and dating them are two very different things.
I know lots of people that I have absolutely no desire to date. That doesn’t mean I’m bigoted against them.
Are you purposefully distorting their words? Since when getting to know is the same as possibly having sex, having a baby and get married?
You have to date someone to get to know them? That’s kind of sad.
Not me. I’ll happily get to know and befriend LGBTQ. And go vigilante if I see them being threatened. I have a 12 year old son and if he wants to date a transgirl she’s welcome in my house as his girlfriend.
Freedom goes both ways.
You need to go outside and touch grass, holy cow you’re online too much.
As always lemmy’s gotta dogpile. You’re basically right though. Most people on lemmy don’t seem to interact with normal people on a day to day basis. Nobody in the real world talks or gives 2 cents about this shit. (that’s a figurative nobody, not a literal nobody)
If you’re running into people shaming you about “CIS” this or that…you’re lookin’ in the wrong places. Most normal people are male or female, and want the opposite sex partner.
This is the reality of life. The chronically online don’t understand that.
