A future-of-work expert said Gen Zers didn’t have the “promise of stability” at work, so they’re putting their personal lives and well-being first.
many genx i know to and im guessing millenial as well.
Where are they living while ‘living’? Costs money to live…
I’m curious about how different Gen Z is from Millennials here, because everyone in my age range that I know seems to share this sentiment with them?
Actually the biggest difference I’ve seen isn’t in effort but ability. I work with everyone from Boomers to Gen Z and by far my Gen Z coworkers have the hardest time with being given a general task and completing it without detailed instructions. Even with detailed instructions, I often have to repeat the instructions due to mistakes and check my younger colleagues’ work more closely.
I think this is, in part, because Gen Z grew up with things that just worked or that they needed to go to a third party to fix if there were issues. Boomers fixed their own cars and did a lot of DIY home repair, Gen X and Millenials both learned to navigate computers and the internet before there were any real instructions guides or helpful UIs. Shit, we uses to program games on our calculators for fun. I think many in Gen Z just never had that because many of those DIY elements require proprietary tools now. A smartphone just works and is designed to be so intuitive a baby can figure it out. It’s not their fault, but it does mean that some critical thinking skills are absent because they’re used to outsourcing the solutions to those problems.
But, again, I have never perceived that they’re not hard workers. On the contrary, I’d argue my Gen Z coworkers, when they’re on their game, are way more efficient than everyone else and definitely work smarter, not harder, which I try to learn from them.
Gen x here and we seen it coming as well but no options for us at the time. I don’t blame any of you. Corporate greed and the great 401k lie is bullshit. They want us to work till we’re dead. Screw them.
The great 401k lie?
Can’t speak for OP, but I don’t look at the 401k as a stable retirement vehicle. It’s a vehicle to pump “dumb money” (read: casino chips) into the stock market. If the stock market downturns just before you retire, if the firm managing your 401k makes bad investments, if another 2008-style real estate collapse happens, your retirement fund suddenly has less money in it than you hoped, so you’re gonna have to work longer.
if the firm managing your 401k makes a bad investment
The administrator of your accounts has zero control over most of the funds available in them, their rise or fall, and your funds are separate from any investments that financial institution may or may not have made.
If you have a 401k with fidelity, or ADP or Schwab or Trowe Price or whoever, some of those are banks, soke finance companies, some payroll, anyway, the point is for each, the money in your account is yours to allot and invest as you wish based on yhe invesrment options your company chose or negotiating with them to administer your company’s plan. The admin makes money by admin fees, not by taking your money and reinvesting it in something you don’t know about. Granted, yes if there is a stock market crash, most financial companies will similarly overall struggle, but they have lots of arms and operations (mortgage loans, commercial, consumer banking, investment banking, etc.) and they are 100% all disconnected from the money in your 401k.
That said, 401ks are awful and a sham that were pushed on an uninformed public and we’ve only just begun to see the effects as the first generation reaches end of work age…and can’t stop working. It’ll continue. Props to anyone fighting and organizing against it or trying to avoid as much as possible. System fully bought and broken by greed.
What’s the point of your first two paragraphs? The person you responded to is 100% right. The point is to pump money in to the fuckin stock market so the wealthiest people can profit off that “investment”
The point was is the plan administrator has no control over whether the value of his account goes up and down, which Op said they did. I agree with everything else Op said but think it’s important since most people don’t understand the mechanics to learn about them so added the correct info.
When the plan administrator is picking the stocks in their “Target Retirement 2055” account, I’d say they have a large amount of control.
Now the S&P 500? Probably no control. But is it truly the S&P 500 or some bull shirt index fund from the 401k provider that’s not 100% following the S&P 500?
As a millennial: I think it’s the dichotomy between “I play the game even though I hate it because it genuinely feels like the only viable option to have a remotely satisfying life” and “fuck the game”.
As an older Gen Z I concur. Even those of us who aren’t completely fucked are extremely anti-corporate with little loyalty to any job. There’s a guy named Jordan Howlett who I feel sums up the average Gen Z attitude towards all the bullshit in the world really well.
Don’t get me wrong I still work hard and try to do well at my job, but the second I hit my time for the day I’m gone. Work is strictly transactional. No one expects their employer to give them money for time they didn’t work, so I ain’t about to give my employer time for money they didn’t give me. They’ll also fire my ass the second they need a stock bump, so I’ll be damned if I’m gonna stick around if I find something better.
I feel like millennials have a “It is what it is, guess ill work til I die” attitude whereas Gen Z have more of a Bartleby the Scrivener “I’d rather not” energy.
Pfft. This article isn’t nearly in depth enough on the topic.
How about the fact that minimum wage hasn’t kept up with inflation? How about the fact that social security and medicare will be gutted by the time they reach elder years? If they reach those elder years at all with all the homelessness, famine, drought, war, and genocide that is already here and creeping into even the most affluent parts of society?
When you ask why kids don’t want to work these days, perhaps you’re not asking the right question because the better question is so uncomfortable, you’d rather not ask it?
Cuz the better question is “Why would kids even want to live in this increasingly nightmarish world my and previous generations have all had a hand in creating?”
But hey, don’t worry about it. Just keep your head in the sand, keep removed about shit you don’t want to understand, and count your stock options, capitalism daddy. /s
When you ask why kids don’t want to work these days…
It’s simple - just don’t ever ask:-). \s :-( 🥲
And yeah, the rate of suicide (including overdosing) is quite shocking. Or depending on who you ask I would guess, “excellent” (evil laughter while wringing hands). Factors like race or even class doesn’t seem to matter to them (edit: okay so they do matter, but it still happens across all of them) - globalization and mechanization means fewer workers are necessary, hence what is not necessary is irrelevant, to The (Illuminati’s) Machine, that cares only for survival of the fittest. :-|
Oh, and no - “keeping removed about shit” implies things like not actively voting to take away further rights & privileges. Roe v. Wade was just the start! Next are elections and democracy itself… I only wish I could add a /s here, but from the chatter… it’s no longer just a joking matter anymore? :-( That generation isn’t done yet it seems, implementing the will of whatever their chosen TV Man tells them to do:-(.
Like “You Must Bow Before the Will of God” - oh so you mean like care about people, taking care of widows & orphans, pay workers the wages they are due, always show kindness and compassion even to the undeserving, stuff like that? “No, I meant lower taxes on the top 0.0000001% - and also wipe my butt for me”. Ooookkkkkkaaaaayyyyyy then…
On the bright side, Gen-Z has stuff figured out - they know how to be happier, simply by not giving a shit:-D. Yes they will suffer - as will we all - but less so, having broken free from that horrible mindset that blinded their predecessors? :-)
“Gen Z is catching on. Vilify them!”
Why the hell shouldn’t they?
Meanwhile, celebrities including Whoopi Goldberg have dismissed their economic struggles. She said they couldn’t afford to buy a house because they’re lazy and “only want to work four hours” a day.
Is every single host of The View a giant piece of shit, or what? We saw this exact same bullshit just the other day from one of the other ones. They should change the name to The Karen.
They all belong to a specific economic class.
Money rots your brain.
The problem, or at least one of them, is that those words resonate so well with her viewers. I am not excusing her, but if she did not say them then someone else would - so yeah it’s more the game than the playa.
People in Gen-Z just don’t work hard as often. Ofc there are reasons: why should they, when their work isn’t valued/rewarded properly? So then to the self-ish/-centered crowd, all they see is that they get served less well by their Gen-Z
slavesworkers than the Millennials who put in more of an effort, but rather than take ownership of that and like go somewhere else that pays their workers better, they instead blame the victim. Like, “I paid a whole dollar for this burger - why aren’t you smiling at me harder as you walk out in the rain to hand-deliver it to me?”Like if you have to live with your parents or roommates anyway, and have little to no hope of ever owning your own home, or possibly even car, and also can’t afford health insurance, to get married, and after over-turning of Roe v. Wade to have sex (even if you were married), etc. then why should you work more than the bare minimum to survive?
If you kick a dog often enough, it stops being happy to see you.:-( Boomers solution: it must need to be kicked harder, until it complies and wags its tail enthusiastically whenever you come home. I am sorry if it breaks your heart to read that sentence… but fwiw, at least it proves you have one:-).
The cost of living crisis in western countries at the moment feels like a stand off between boomers and gen Z over exactly this. One one hand you have the boomers expecting the same service and quality while paying less and less, on the other you have gen Z who refuse to do it for the pittance. So the cost of living is now skyrocketing in an attempt to strong-arm gen Z into compliance.
I understand that it looks that way from the outside, but that is far too simplistic - i.e., correlation is not causation, especially where the latter is already known. What is CAUSING so much pain right now is corporate greed, and what ALLOWS that is primarily voting Democrat vs. Republican, with the heaviest voting block being evangelical Christian vs. not. A complicating factor is that baby boomers are somewhat insulated from the worst effects, plus their retirement savings are often tied up into the stock market that is what rich people want to succeed, plus they don’t do themselves much credit by being remarkably unsympathetic to the plight of how the younger generations are being sold into corporate near-slavery, plus on top of it all they do trend more towards voting conservative to begin with, etc. But e.g. a young Republican does far more harm than an old Democrat, i.e. age is one of the more minor correlating effects.
An illustration may help: right now if a 10-year old girl is raped by her very own father and gets pregnant, the primary discriminator of whether she will live or is consigned to have a VERY good chance of dying (in agony) is whether she lives in an area that votes primarily Democratic or one that votes primarily Republican. This is the stuff that is literally life and death.
Beyond that, the effects of inflation, the availability of jobs, whether the government of the state that you are in is bankrupt, and/or has any/no competent/sufficient firefighters/police/teachers/medical staff/etc. all correlate with Republican vs. Democrat. Look at COVID death rates to see which area is which, especially after the vaccine existed.
In short, there are two different Americas right now, one being mostly third-world (except still has internet and TV and cars and stuff, but I still would not call it second-world when the child mortality rate is somewhere between Rwanda and Uganda, and has been about that level for decades) and the other first-world. And they are tearing at each other, one being never happy with the way things are and wanting to go still further back in time, floating such thoughts as whether women should still be allowed to vote, plus literally calling for a “national divorce” (with prejudice - i.e. a literal, murderous, bloody Civil War part 2), and the other also wanting basically not that. So similar to Brexit, we are basically ready for Amexit? Except from ourselves. Which will affect the entire fucking world b/c if Biden loses and Trump comes in again, what are the chances that this time he discovers that he can control nukes?
Anyway, yes old people helped bring this about, but mostly by inaction and while I am not saying that mistakes were not made, I am saying that much of the media rhetoric about the generations being at each others’ throats is… if not entirely false, then at least mostly so. i.e., it is not old people attacking the younger ones, it is corporations attacking us all (but who would like it very much if we would simply pretend that they were not involved? thus they bought up all the media, and now good luck hearing a story that ever says that they are complicit in anything).
People in Gen-Z just don’t work hard as often.
Is that really true though? I’m Gen-X and they said the same thing about us, and then the Millennials, and now the current gen. I think quit quitting is largely a myth and plenty of GenZ are working their asses off. They’re not getting the same rewards. But I can also understand if some them do choose to opt out. But the fact that they can’t afford to buy homes is not proof that they are lazy.
That’s a good point but… I honestly do not know. We used to have access to “reporting” that would tell us “facts”, but now everything is commercialized to sell us whatever story seems most appealing to us (positively or negatively, whatever you will click on really: sex sells, fear even better, anger best of all) - so I’m sure you can find reports on all possible sides telling different stories, all with short-changed selections of facts and virtually no analysis to speak of. Unless a highly-trusted source chooses to take on a precise topic and you happen to have consumed it already (and remember it), you are basically SOL. Like, how do people even buy things anymore, either online or in physical stores, except by just gambling and hoping for the best from a purchase? Clothes just flat disintegrate, … okay, I better keep focus here:-).
I tend to think that Gen-Z likely do work less hard - as a trend if not individually ofc - b/c of the reasons behind it, after all why would they work equally as hard, when they are being offered a fraction of the compensation? BTW I never said that they were lazy, and I tried to go to some trouble to explain why it is understandable how they are reacting - e.g. in the kick the dog example, it’s not the dog’s fault for not liking the master that kicked it so very, very often?
As one example, something that enticed previous generations to work hard was to own a home. But now, if that is off the table… (or maybe, if they think it is? I’m not certain of this aspect) then they don’t need to work as hard, to own something that they can never own anyway?
Another thing that enticed previous generations to work hard for was to get a college degree. But now, with that costing >5x as much, and it being worth sth like 1/10th of what it was to previous generations (where are these magical “jobs” that offer things like “benefits” - and “stability” and “pensions” are pretty much flat gone, as too are the social security along with medicare/medicaid safety nets, etc.), plus colleges themselves are fairly predatory, many just don’t bother. But there’s a whole spectrum here: if they do go, they often don’t work hard in them - not that colleges demand that anymore, b/c again, they are predatory, and their purpose is to pump either the kids or their parents (or loans, whoever signed them) for as much money as they can get out of them, which doesn’t happen if they flunk out too awfully early…
Still another thing used to be to get married, have kids, and independent of whether owning a home or not, to raise a family. This we can directly measure: isn’t Gen-Z doing much less of any of this?
Boomers worked hard b/c they saw value ahead in doing so. Gen-Z is getting their quality of life now, while the getting is good, b/c that is all that is left for them to be able to do.:-( No matter our age, we will all die sooner, and in much greater levels of pain and misery (if only second-hand by hearing stories of the exploitation going on around us) than our parents’ generation - the Republicans have already seen to that and will most definitely continue to push much harder on that front still. :-(
after all why would they work equally as hard, when they are being offered a fraction of the compensation?
What other choice do they have?
Precisely my point. Like when you kick a dog, why would it say “thank you”, or “please sir, but could you kick me again some more, and this time harder”? THAT WOULD NOT HAPPEN!
The younger generations have given up, hence they do not work as hard, but it wasn’t their choice - they simply reacted to what was offered them. From a pure game-theoretical standpoint even, it is the right call to maximize gains and minimize losses, given the rules under which they are “playing”.
But the people blaming the younger generations… it is like blaming that dog, rather than the one who kicked it - it makes no sense?
i remember reading similar headlines about millenials… this bullshit is always targeted at young adults, and its always the same superficial “analysis”
Corporate America is a shit lifestyle and double digit iq is enough to realize that.
Every generation does this. Gen Z can barely afford to.
They don’t really think middle aged man are going into work every day busting their plums, just so some cunt above them can buy a nicer car do they?
Bare minimum, every day, don’t get sacked. Winner.
This just isn’t true in the US. There’s absolutely a culture among older generations here of people working their ass off for nothing. And those people look down on younger folks who aren’t as stupid as they are, and don’t give away their labor for free.
Not only look down on, but accuse younger generations of being “disrespectful” for not accepting them same level of exploitation from them.
In 1960, minimum wage was $1.00/hour and the price of the average home was $11,000.00. Of course people wanted to work hard and save, because they could see that it paid off almost instantly.
BTW, in 1960 $1 million would buy a mansion, a few nice cars, and a couple of businesses. Today, it’s what a rich guy pays for a party.
I wanted to see a graph, and couldn’t find one online.
It looks like, at least in the middle of Canada, being born between 1960 and 1980 was the ideal time if you wanted to buy a home.
This doesn’t take into account mortgage rates, tax rates, average household income, unemployment rates, or other cost of living expenses.
I just wanted a little chart, not to lose my whole dayIn the middle of Canada; Winnipeg, MB:
Year Minimum wage House price Price/wage (lower is better) 1960 $0.66 $15,151 22,956 1970 $1.50 $51,678 34,452 1980 $3.15 $53,513 16,988 1990 $4.70 $87,173 18,547 2000 $6.00 $95,520 15,920 2010 $9.50 $231,411 24,359 2020 $11.90 $299,994 25,209 Lazy sources:
https://www.gov.mb.ca/labour/standards/history-min.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3TKC-H0omc
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/980512/dq980512-eng.htmMinimum wage had an increase of 1,703%. Housing had an increase of 1,880%.
That early minimum wage growth is huge. 2,5x during 1960-70, then 2x 10 years later. Imagine minimum wage being $30 by 2030, then $60 by 2040.
If we wanted things to keep pace with the house price to wage ratio of 1980(for people born in 1960), Minimum wage should’ve been $17.66 in 2020.
living over working
Yes, we all want that. But…
Are they eating air? Living with their parents? Accumulating debt?
What are their plans for the next 50 years, because living will get a hell of a lot harder than it is now.
We’ve all been forced to put work over life, just to survive long enough to work past retirement age.
You missed a word. It says “prioritizing living over working”. The promise was to work hard and a lot to get a good lifestyle (house, a nice car or two, vacations). Now it’s work hard but without those rewards in sight. So we cut back on working to a point where we can still have an okay lifestyle.
What does an OK lifestyle look like if you aren’t prioritizing work?
I’m not being critical to sound like an ass. I think we’re all stuck in the same, miserable, work-dependant lifestyle, and it’s aweful.
I realize I’m privileged as my situation is a lot better than having to live paycheck to paycheck. However, if I wanted to get a nice house, decent car, vacations, etc. I’d have to put in a lot more work than the usual 40 hours. Instead of doing that though I looked at my finances and decided, I could reduce my hours to 35 without decreasing my quality of life too much so I did that instead.
I do understand though that people in precarious and less-compensated jobs cannot afford this luxury.
Yeah, if you’ve got a high-paying job then you have the means to not have to prioritize work. Hopefully, that remains constant over the next several decades.
But how many Gen Z’ers are in that position?
We keep seeing articles about Gen Z’ers not being able to afford rent, let alone food and other basic comforts. They are, or will be, forced to put work first. Not just working harder to get the luxuries of their grandparents or parents, but working harder to scrape by.
And I don’t even see and end to this. Corporations will eventually abolish retirement, because very few will be able to retire the way things keep going.
I think the idea is that a lot of people prioritize only their work. The whole hustle grindset thing, working obscene hours to try to get rich. Instead of doing that, seeing that whole rat race for what it is, doing enough work to get by, and then actually enjoying your time elsewhere seems to be what this is advocating for.
I think the idea is that a lot of people prioritize only their work.
Is this really a thing? Has it ever been for the masses?
Sure, people might prioritize work over anything else when they are young, but that’s often necessary to secure a future.
Other people live to work, but that’s pretty rare.
Instead of doing that, seeing that whole rat race for what it is, doing enough work to get by, and then actually enjoying your time elsewhere seems to be what this is advocating for.
I thought that what most people do. Does anyone actually believe that working hard at their low-paying job is going to make them rich? I thought that idea was dead decades ago.
Just look at the hustle grindset, or sigma grind, or whatever you want to call it. No, most people aren’t working 120 hours a week at a McDonald’s, but a lot more are getting multiple jobs, side hustles, etc to get to “get ahead” in the game.
Do the minimum to put the food you like on the table, to afford a place to live, and then fuck off for the rest of the time. No OT, no projects outside of work hrs, no checking email overnight. Do your job, to the level that is strictly required, and reprioritize yourself any other time.
And you think that’ll allow you to retire at 65? 85?
Look, I get it. I don’t prioritize work over “life”, but I’m not naive to believe that I’ll have a comfortable retirement, because I won’t.
I think the majority of us will stuggle tremendously in the coming decades.
I never said you’d be able to comfortably retire. That’s another part of it. The younger generations know they won’t retire at all, or at a reasonable time, so just do your 40, get enough to live, and go do something actually fulfilling.
I’m so fucking tired reading articles about boomers this, millenials that, zoomies this.
What you’re seeing is the result of decades of Reaganomics coming home to roost.
Look up Hunter’ Thompson’s book about the “Hell’s Angels.” There’s a chapter on the economics of being a biker/hippie/artist circa 1970.
A biker could work six months as a Union stevedore and earn enough to live on the road for two years, and a part time waitress could support herself and a musician boyfriend.
a future-of-work expert
Saw the writing on the wall and just invented a new job.
“Robots are taking our jerbs”
Not gen z, but God bless 'em. I came to the same conclusion after the first round of layoffs at my first job. They laid off the experts because they had higher salaries and kept the lower paid, less skilled workers. It was completely absurd. Then it happened again, and again. Why would I ever expect my work to treat me with any loyalty or concern when no employer has even shown me or mine any?
