Friendly reminder that only one of them is unstable enough to use them.
Trumps face got pee’d on by a little girl, Biden banged a 12 year old when he was 30. Yeah. Interesting times in Hamburgerland
Bullshit, “good sir.”
Trump was the #1 client on Epstein’s list, correct me if I’m wrong.
Didn’t Biden literally just say “she was 12, I was 30” in relation to saying hi to someone in the crowd? Not saying that’s normal, only acceptable answer here is he was chatting with a friend’s child at some point, but also, where is the reference to him fucking her?
Don’t care. I am voting against Project 2025 and for the guy that has an effective and good group around him…not the useful idiot that has to get a new group of people given to him by his handers because the last group is all in prison…
The same group that put him on the debate stage? The same group that allowed him to come off fully arrogant and out of touch in the latest interview? The same group that has essentially thrown one of the most important elections in the span of a week? Fuckin hell, there’s a case to be made of elderly abuse against this ‘good group’.
I’m gonna vote republican-light (D), but this head in the sand bullshit is an additional turn off. You should care.
I get it, the stakes are high and fascism looms, but shilling for the oligarchy is just barf. I’m surprised y’all haven’t started wearing blue hats ‘keep america great’ or some stupid shit yet.
It isn’t shilling it, it is recognizing that literally nothing can be done about it YET (especially between now and the election) and it is irrelevant for the topic of who to vote for this election…hell the only relevance is that trump will be the worst option for it, but it always comes up to pull voters away from the only good option, either as a no-vote or into a spoiler-vote.
Biden is losing in the polls to trump. If he continues to run we will have Trump again. I’m scared shirtless. I wish the democratic party would quit gambling with our democracy and take the fascist threat seriously.
They are taking the threat seriously. The problem is who they consider the threat. Democrats don’t see fascists as a threat to them, and do see progressives as a threat.
∆ oh look at that! What’s that? The right take!
Which is exactly how Hitler came to power too, the middle chose right because they were more scared of left.
Great take
I don’t like it anymore than anyone else, but just look at how effective they were in shutting down Bernie. Yet, somehow, they are completely powerless to stop the Repuglicans from doing whatever they have wanted for the last 80 years.
I don’t know why I got down voted for agreeing with you 🤔
Yeah you’re completely right.
They probably assumed that you were being sarcastic like the other guy I didn’t respond to. I figured I would see if you were, glad to see my assumption was correct.
Oh I wasn’t sarcastic I’m just tired of people saying it’s absolutely not the Democrats absolutely doing everything in their power to not even consider actually moving left.
I figured I was being down voted because it was obnoxious to use text that big but I don’t care.
Well, you’re in the US, so it’s not your problem if they decide to nuke someone outside it or, say, greenlight an invasion. While I have some of my family and myself in a place theoretically attractive to nukes, and half of my other family in a country likely to be invaded. Fortunately the rest is distributed between USA and a country which, despite all the cries, is in no significant danger.
MAD is very real and will happen if America launches nukes at anyone so I think every American should be worried about our government deciding to use them.
Sorry you in fear of invasion or nuking. I don’t mean to say those in the USA will have it the worst of this happens. There is Def safety in the imperial core.
I don’t feel the need to compete over who will have it worse, comrade. let’s just be on the same side instead🙂
That’s more of a joking tone, if it happens, it happens anyway.
Oh no! Not the highly accurate and never wrong polls!!!
So your opinion is that we ignore polls completely and stick our hands in the sand…
Sure, if we are redefining “ignorance” and “discarding historically bad information sources”…
I’m scared shirtless.
This is clearly not The Good Place so you can say “shit.”
To be fair, (spoilers for the show) it was the bad place where you couldn’t swear
Shirt
IDC how old they, I care how competent they are.
Theres plenty of incompetent middle aged and young people as well, letstry not to elect any of them, k?
Correct, it’s about competency. Age is not indicative of one’s competency, just a mere suggestion - no matter if the person is young or old.
Removed by mod
Yeah, its a dumb barrier in 2024. Lots of 20somethings would be better than biden or trump.
Ultimately, the DNC and RNC exist to stifle options, so until the 2 party system has a replacement theres little hope for real change anyways.
The 2 party system rests on the one seat FPTP election system. So you’d need a complete renewal.
Exactly this, I’d rather someone near me drive their car at 65mph, than drive next to someone who’s a cocaine addict going over 85mph on the freeway.
I think you’re on to something. We can probably solve most of the problems Biden has in the public discourse by giving him some cocaine.
Even though I’ll never vote for either of these genocidal neoliberal freaks, they are not the same. Saying one is bad because he is old is not an acceptable justification and it is ageism. The problem with Biden (regardless of his and his party’s political orientation) is the fact that he is simply unsuitable for the job, he clearly doesn’t have the mental and physical capacity for it. Trump on the other side (even though he’s a fascist and regardless of the insane shit he says) is fine. He has the strength and mental clarity for the job. So don’t compare Trump and Biden on this front, Trump can function just fine.
If we toss aside issues of ideology to focus just on technical ability to perform, I think you are missing a key factor. Electing a president is also electing the administration, and a president can only be as good as the people they surround themselves with. Biden knows how to assemble a solid team, while Trump doesn’t. Trump is also incapable of listening to food advice, even in the rare instance where he allows it to be given to him.
Look at the issue of the newly expanded presidential immunity. The President is sheltered from prosecution for issuing an illegal order, but his staff is not required to follow that order. Which candidate will surround themselves with people who respect the law, and which candidate will surround themselves with lackeys?
I don’t really think you can say for sure who has a better team and whatnot. That’s an assumption and besides, Trump has proved that he knows exactly what he is doing with how consistently reactionary and neoliberal his term was. This pretty much shows that the decisions most of the time are not made by him, nor by any “team” he builds, but by the interests behind the conservative party. Likewise for Biden.
I don’t want to sound like I’m defending Trump, I hate Trump and anything conservative/right wing with all my heart. I just want people to realize that when all that’s left to talk about in public discourse is the mental capacity of the individual candidates and their criminal records, it is a sign of the narrowness of political differences of the parties, of absence of any important political point of confrontation. They have and historically had the same direction and interests with few differences on social issues that don’t interfere with their interests. At some point people have to realize both parties are so similar and distant from any actual pressing problem in the world (genocide, climate change, billionaires) that the lesser evil doesn’t hold up anymore - in every situation there is always a level of evilness that the lesser evil doesn’t hold up when reached by both.
I don’t really think you can say for sure who has a better team
Really? Just look at how many members of Trump’s campaign and whitehouse staff have been charged or convicted with felonies. Look at how fast he went through chiefs of staff. Look at who is running his campaign today.
You got Trump right as a reactionary, but he is in no way a neoliberal. Neoliberals are not my cup of tea, but they are absolutely nuts for things like civility, following established norms, inclusiveness, immigration, and free trade.
Biden is a lifelong neoliberal who has miraculously made some pretty major moves away from neoliberal policies. It’s a shame the term “Bidenomics” flopped, because there really is something to it. The Biden labor department has made significant changes to aid in unionization. The Chips Act and Inflation Reduction Act have brought a lot of key manufacturing back to the US, which is the antithesis of neoliberal doctrine.
Trump’s economy was a disaster even before COVID hit. Supply chain issues started with his tariff war, unemployment was already growing, and inflation was already speeding up.
Even a Biden 20 years younger wouldn’t be my choice of president but, against Trump, there is no contest.
Doing away with First Past The Post voting in favor of a more representative electoral system (such as but not limited to Ranked Choice voting) will Introduce competition into the electoral process.
Cool, how do we do that before November?
We have to think further than the next election. At this point we just have to assume we will win this November and start planning for 2028. There’s going to be a big strike that May Day so we would need to have sympathetic representatives wherever we can. As much as we hate biden for solely running on that, “not Republican” will get you far, maybe enough to flip even a local seat
Are we sure trump still doesn’t possess the codes hidden away in a box somewhere?
Can we get some young, hot men into office?
I’m Canadian, and while I am critical of Trudeau and Jagmeet Singh, I sure do enjoy LOOKING at them.
Well the good news is that if Biden wins all the names being tossed around for 28 are in their 40s or 50s at the oldest.
I’m crossing my fingers for Whitmer personally.
Bad news is that if Trump wins, they’ll all probably be in prison by then.
Vote.
What also sucks is that every other democrat running for president in 2028 is just a younger version of biden, complete with the same imperialist and segregationist politics.
You mean they are unified? Wow. What a concept.
Unified when it comes to genocide, yes.
Yes. Because you said genocide in your first statement.
What’s the difference between a nazi and someone who excuses genocide?
You mean like pulling out of Ukraine to also Russia to commit genocide… Now who did that again?
Why did the Ukrainian government outlaw the Russian language before the SMO began?
As long as the two party system reigns supreme and one party puts forth absolutely insane candidates, the other candidate will be no more than a middle ground candidate that tries to siphon votes and take no meaningful stances.
It’s a win win for conservatives, at worst they get someone that has to cater to some of their base.
Liberals: “genocide is the middle ground.”
If you really believe the Republicans getting control of the nation state is a existential threat, you would want to use every tool possible to prevent that right?
What if we changed how we vote so maintaining democracy doesn’t fall solely into the democrats lap? So the democrats have backup on the debate stage! So there are more people to call trump out on his bullshit. So we have more chances to stop the Republicans. Wouldn’t you want more chances? Don’t you want to do everything we can to stop the worst from occurring?
Consider working towards passing electoral reform in your state. Maine and Alaska were able to do it… why not yours?
Especially in a blue state. What is stopping blue states from passing electoral reform? Cause it ain’t the Republicans…
What if we changed how we vote so maintaining democracy doesn’t fall solely into the democrats lap?
You’ve yet to explain how to do this before November. Still waiting.
Yeah this is like “if you don’t like either and you actually want something better, just change how voting works really quick, in a few months.”
That’s what they do. Anything but deal with reality.
Michigan, for one, has made several reforms to electoral law via ballot measures and laws
Both Sides, comrade?
Criticism of both capitalist parties from a leftist perspective doesn’t imply a false equivalence.
Usually when I see someone bring up “both sides” it’s a conservative like you trying to make people criticizing the democrats seem unreasonable.
Both sides are capitalist and conservative, but of course there are differences. Don’t you want more differences?
If you really get people who often “both sides” you, do you wanna know how to shut them the fuck up? You put them in the game! You force them to put their words into action by passing electoral reform. Doing away with First Past The Post voting, getting rid of tge spoiler effect, and make third parties viable.
Make them prove it. Force them to show us how it’s done. It’s so easy right? Force them into the game and they won’t have any “sides” to complain about.
More democracy is the answer, not hoping they vote for your guy.
So am i and i am one
No one has said it in this thread, and there’s a lot of people talking about how they wish there was another option:
I’m voting for the Party for Socialism and Liberation and you can too!
They’re running Claudia de la Cruz on a platform of Palestinian statehood and an end to arms shipments to Israel.
There are many alternatives.
Pass electoral reform first IMO. Unless critical mass is achieved, we would be spoiling the election. This is why passing electoral reform is of utmost importance.
Democrats clearly understand the faults of First Past The Post voting. Go on any platform and suggest voting third party and the liberals will come in droves to explain the faults of the FPTP voting system.
Okay, you understand the voting system is flawed… then why do we still use FPTP voting? How can you explain these mathematical flaws to people considering voting third party and NOT do anything about the voting system? You don’t get to have both.
I don’t buy that. Both major parties, all the donors, the media, the lobbying groups and all the party machines in all fifty states are heavily invested the system we have.
I’m not gonna wait till we tip the whole system over to record a vote that actually represents my political positions.
If the two major parties are afraid of third party spoilers then they can adopt the platforms of those third parties.
Ok, then just be aware that when the pile of votes for 3rd party isn’t anywhere near either candidates pile your vote won’t matter. Biden and Trump will get the majority of votes and you will lose your chance to impact one of the most important elections in US history because of naive idealisms.
And neither party is afraid of the 3rd party, they use it. They take reasonable minded people who would never vote Republican and push them to 3rd party to weaken the Democrats votes. It’s exactly what they did with Bernie and how Trump won. They had massive turn out for the 3rd party that did absolutely nothing but split the Dems and allow the Republicans to be unified. A vote for 3rd party is a vote for Republicans, I know you don’t want to believe that reality but it’s true.
that’s not true.
third party votes provide access to funding, ballot and event presence, media coverage and public awareness. third party votes do matter and they have a measurable positive impact.
third party votes tell the two major parties exactly what positions they need to integrate into their platforms in order to pick up those ballots in those particular districts. even if a person doesn’t think it’s worthwhile to build support for a third party, a third party ballot is an undeniable record of what the two major parties can do to get your support.
when people start talking about this kind of thing i generally like to bring up perot 92, which had a serious effect on domestic policy and was proven not to be a spoiler multiple times in the years that followed.
Ok, prove me wrong, when was the last 3rd party president?
Anyone can see that a majority of 3rd party votes come from Democrats because the right is radicalized. So by splitting that base you empower the Republicans. A split Democrat/3rd party base accomplishes nothing but clearing the way for this project 2025 bs.
I never claimed there was a third party president and I already proved your claims wrong in my last post.
But if you want a third party president, look into Lincoln’s second term running as the Union party candidate, a coalition formation that came from triangulating around a bunch of smaller third parties.
If the democrats are afraid of a split they can change their platform to get more votes.
Yes, there has never been a 3rd party president and their won’t be for a long time.
But ya, let’s teach the Dems a lesson by handing over the country to the radical right, boy that’ll show em. How purposefully self destructive. You’re so idealistic that your not playing out the reality of how that will go.
This is clown shit lmao
Why do you think so?
Being a Marxist in 2024 is clown shit as it is, but voting for Marxist-Leninist party in America is just baffling. The cherry on top is that the clown you’re planning to vote for has some mighty interesting policy proposals including:
- Seizing the 100 biggest corporations in the country
- Seize the agricultural and energy industries
- Repurpose the energy industry to generate exclusively renewable energy
- Expand the transportation system with all an electric fleet while no autoworker loses their job and millions of new, good paying jobs are going to be created
- Expand affirmative action discrimination
- Use the assets of the seized top 100 corporations as reparations for black people
- Cut the military budget by 90%
- Abolish NATO
- Support Russia against Ukraine and China against Taiwan
- Abolish AFRICOM specifically for some reason
- Abolish the CIA, NSA, and FBI
- Abolish the Senate, the Supreme Court, and the Federal Reserve
- Expose all of the America’s state secrets
- End all American sanctions on dictatorships such as Russia, Venezuela, Iran, North Korea, etc
- Help aid the destruction of Israel
- Going on purges to lock up the “corrupt elite”
- Cancel all debt
- Eliminate inflation with an “across the board price freeze”
- Ban evictions and cap rent at 10% of income
- Tax all income and assets over 10 million over 100%
- Ban ownership of overseas assets
It’s like a bad joke, except nobody is laughing. The fact that there are people out there who are so mind numbingly ignorant of economics, government, social politics, history, and geopolitics that they actually think this brain damaged list of policies is a good idea is just sad. Claudia de la Cruz is so bad that she is unironically worse than Trump, and you have to try really, really hard to be worse than Trump. Literally a turd is better than Trump, so for her to be worse is just… wow. Do better, come on.
i’m already convinced to vote for her, you don’t need to make the case.
Like I said, clown shit
Can you tell me what’s bad about that platform?
Even with the uncharitable wording you used on some items it seems like a huge list of good policies and goals that would help the American people. How come it’s bad?
I’ll give you a genuine answer because I assume you’re actually being serious.
I’ll dissect 3 of their policies at random that I already listed above to demonstrate just how of touch these people are. Just an FYI, they have a few more ridiculous policies that I didn’t include because my list was starting to get too long, but I just wanted point this out nonetheless. Anyways, let’s get on to the policies:
Abolish NATO
Why exactly? In what way does this move benefit the United States? Do these idiots even understand what country they’re running to govern? NATO is an American led organization that has served as the backbone of American-European bilateral cooperation and one of the most fundamental pieces to American foreign policy for decades. Not only does NATO guarantee American security and the security of our most important allies, but it also serves as one of the biggest pillars of American soft and hard power. Rouge regimes like Iran and Russia know better than to mess with our European allies in NATO because they the presence of the US military and it’s might acts as a deterrent. NATO is the symbol of Western unity, it is a stabilizing force in Europe, it is what’s keeping Europe largely peaceful.
Not to mention that NATO’s explicit purpose of defending Europe from Russian aggression is more relevant than ever because Russia has literally invaded Ukraine, the second largest European country, right now in the largest land war in Europe since WWII. It’s a blatant act of unprovoked aggression and imperial conquest. Putin along with his cronies have publicly threatened other countries such as Lithuania, Poland, Estonia, Moldova, Latvia, etc with invasion and have threatened other countries such as the UK and Germany with nukes. This is on top of Russia already invading Ukraine in 2014 and annexing Crimea, invading Georgia in 2008 and creating two puppet states in Abkhazia and South Ossetia, illegally turning Belarus into a puppet dictatorship, illegally occupying parts of Moldova in the form of Transnistria, starting the war in Donbass, annexing all of southern Ukraine in their current invasion, spending billions annually on propaganda and misinformation campaigns to destabilize the West, sending in assassins to take out targets in the West, constantly launching cyberattacks on our infrastructure, bolstering our enemies like Iran and North Korea, and the list goes on and on.
Why the fuck should we put ourselves and our allies at risk, appease a ruthless dictator, and destroy all of the alliances and good we’ve made? How does abolishing NATO serve our national interests? Calling this idiotic is too generous for what it is.
Cancel all debt
No debt? Yay! But what does that mean exactly? See, if the policy here is to cancel specific types of debt, then you could excuse it. If it is promoting a welfare program that provides relief to people, then you could make an arguement for it… but no, on their official platform they just straight up claim that all debt should be cancelled.
Let’s think about this from a logical point of view for a second. This country has a lot of debt whether it’s public, corporate, or individual… how exactly would cancel it? Is their plan to print money to pay off all of the debt? That’s a one way ticket to inflation. Are they planning to ban loans? That’s another way to screw over the economy, especially poor people. Are they perhaps planning to just to write a statement saying that all debt is hereby void and expect that to actually work? It’s really baffling.
Let’s suppose, they manage to actually do it, are new loans going to be allowed? If not, how are they going to prevent the banks from collapsing? Banks literally run on loans, that’s how they work. If the banks collapse, so does everything that uses them, which basically means that the US economy will crash and burn. Is this their genius plan? Is the grand socialist idea to collapse the American economy and plunge the world economy into absolute chaos? I shudder at the thought of how many people will fall into poverty or famine because of this.
The thing that pisses me off about this is that they don’t even bother to explain their reasoning. If you’re going to do something this big and stupid then at least have the decency to explain it to your voters. Explain why debt is bad and how you’re going to cancel it. Keeping it this vague and sweet sounding when the consequences are so devastating just reeks of malicious intentions.
Seizing the 100 biggest corporations in the country
Socialists have this completely out of touch view that if a government seizes large swaths of the economy, it’ll run exactly the same except the public will reap all the benefits… that’s just WRONG! That’s not how it works. We’ve seen time and time again throughout history that planned economies ALWAYS result in failure. The government is way too inefficient, way too slow, way too rigid, and is prone to making poor decisions. This is the actual reason why socialism is a failure as an economic system. All it does is give the government way too much power, which inevitably corrupts it and turns it authoritarian. Unless the government sanctions it’s own corporations that run the same way as private corporations, it’s just not going to work. Do you know what does work? The free market.
Let’s sit here for a second and think about how America became so wealthy and developed. All this wealth didn’t teleport here from another dimension, no it was created by the free market. It’s been shown time and time again that when you give people agency and freedom to run their own livelihoods, they will do so better than anyone else. Private economies are constantly more productive, more efficient, more resilient, more dynamic, and more wealthy. You clearly see this contrast throughout in history. Take for example the backwards hellhole that was the East Germany and the thriving hub that was West Germany or the closest thing to hell on earth in Maoist China compared the booming China of the 2000s or the starving authoritarian pit known as the Soviet Union and the prosperous United States. There’s hundreds of examples like this, you get the idea. Capitalism works, and economic freedom is a proven method to generate wealth and prosperity.
Is our current economy flawed? Yes, it is. It has a lot of problems that range in severity and scale. However, the solution is to vote in principled politicians who will reform the system to add pragmatic regulations, incentives, and policies to more effectively run the economy to keep it sustainable, accountable, and working to the benefit of the people. The last thing we need is for economically illiterate people stuck to a failed ideology trying to use government power to seize a swath of the economy that will inevitably lead to unprecedented authoritarianism, collapse of the global economy, and money to flee the country in droves.
Literally all of their policies are this nonsensical. Every. Single. One. Just the slightest bit of criticism is enough to expose their positions for being nothing more than meaningless drivel.
Here’s the thing, politics as a concept is about how best run a government. You can’t run a country on fantasies and outlandish ideals. You NEED to have pragmatism or otherwise you’re going to risk collapse. The big issue with both Trump, and to a lesser extent, Biden is that they’re both out of touch with reality. So much so that they’re widely regarded as the two worst candidates in American history. Even though they’re old and senile, they still at least try in some half assed way to be realistic with their positions. Claudia De la Cruz, Karina Garcia, and all these other clowns are so batshit crazy, so deranged, and so out of touch with reality that they make Biden and fucking Trump look sane in comparison.
People who support Marxism in 2024 are victims of propaganda from a bygone era. Marxism is no more, it’s a failed ideology. It has been tried dozens of times across time, culture, and land and it has collapsed every single time. The only thing it has to show for it is tyrannical regimes, famines, and widespread poverty. The ideology has a track record that’s on par, or arguably worse, than fascism. The era of Marxism is gone and it’s not coming back. The ideals of the Soviet bloc were never good, but now they’re just irrelevant. It’s time to move on.
I understand that it’s hard to vote for either Trump or Biden, but this? This is even worse. Marxism and this clown party aren’t genuine alternative and never will be. There’s appetite for a new political, economic, and social system not just in the US, but around the globe. With the impending large scale population collapses and shrinking demographics world wide, we will be forced to either work with we got to stay afloat or come up with an entirely new system. If we do innovate a new system it has to be created in the context of this era. It has to be made by people of this era to address issues of this era with solutions designed for this era. Will that be UBI and AI? Who knows. But what I do know is that Marxism definitely doesn’t have a place in the modern world anymore.
I am sick of genocidal lunatics (both of them) and their enablers (you).
My brother in Christ, I am Canadian.
*klanadian
This is a good idea for a game!