Former President Barack Obama cautioned against ignoring the complexities of the Israel-Hamas war, warning that “all of us are complicit.”

“If you want to solve the problem, then you have to take in the whole truth. And you then have to admit nobody’s hands are clean, that all of us are complicit to some degree,” he said in an excerpted interview with Pod Save America released Saturday.

            • CommanderM2192@lemmy.world
              71·
              10 months ago

              I wouldn’t personally know what a liberal thinks since I’m not a liberal (or conservative). But, it is an atrocity. Rich assholes like Zuckerberg are given free reign to continue taking ancestral lands from the tribes there. The people who had their land taken from them by conquerors should have the right to determine what to do with their ancestral land.

              Anyways, want to answer my question you racist shithead?

            • MonkeyBusiness@lemmy.one
              5·
              10 months ago

              Seems to me you only care about this conflict because it fits your worldview, as you clearly don’t care about a communist regime activity committing genocide on the Uighurs.

              If Israel was a communist country you’d be running over Palestinians with tank right now.

              • StalinistTransition@lemm.ee
                12·
                10 months ago

                Seems to me you only care about this conflict because it fits your worldview, as you clearly don’t care about a communist regime activity committing genocide on the Uighurs.

                youre going to ignore a genocide on muslims and then suddenly care when it becomes time to own the baddies on the internet?

                Can you get any more hypocritical or do you have another few stages you crack-skin colonizer?

                if israel was communist i think a bunch of things would be very different about israel, but i guess im no match for the legendary strawman you have just constructed!

                Tell me, do you type these things thinking you’re ‘owning’ someone like your ancestors did slaves or what? Because you sound like a lying piece of shit with no morals and values besides being a dog for the US empire.

              • KepBen@lemmy.world
                14·
                10 months ago

                Seems to me you only care about this conflict because it fits your worldview

                you clearly don’t care about [the thing that fits my worldview]

                🤔

      • meowMix2525@lemm.ee
        137·
        10 months ago

        Even if it was a misfired Palestinian rocket, which still isn’t proven btw, it doesn’t outweigh the 30+ hospitals that Israel has bombed to this day, or for that matter the fucking refugee camp they bombed last week.

        • mwguy@infosec.pub
          113·
          10 months ago

          I mean it does though because of the claim of 500 dead bodies that magically appeared and then (not a joke) dissolved like salt into water once it was clear it was IJ at fault and not the IDF.

          Israel has largely been pinpoint with its strikes and when you compare it’s released maps of Gaza’s tunnel networks from the last war with the BBC’s map of its airstrikes it’s very clear what they’re doing.

        • trafficnab@lemmy.ca
          84·
          10 months ago

          or for that matter the fucking refugee camp they bombed last week

          I was confused by this initially too (I read the headline and imagined a tent city for people fleeing this current war, but then the photo was of a city block with like 5 story buildings) but it’s only called a “refugee camp” because it was originally a site where refugees gathered after the 1948 war, in the modern day it’s more or less an urban neighborhood of Gaza with a population (at one point) of 100,000 just like any other part of the city

      • Lt_Cdr_Data@discuss.tchncs.de
        21·
        10 months ago

        I think hospital bombings on both sides must always be taken with a grain of salt… because if you are in a war and are highly unethical; where is the best place to operate a military base from, if you want to protect it from bombings?

      • StalinistTransition@lemm.ee
        514·
        10 months ago

        Wasn’t that Hamas who did the Al-Ahli Arab Hospital bombing? Though it’s debatable.

        no its fucking not you absolute fucking moron

        unplug from your american state propaganda

    • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
      2115·
      10 months ago

      Terrorists consider civilian casualties to be a scorecard. Hamas benefits when there’s Israeli civilian casualties. Hamas also benefits when there’s Palestinian civilian casualties.

      That’s the whole point of taking hostages isn’t it? To force Israel into a ground campaign which will cause Palestinian civilian casualties.

      The military forces of civilized nations don’t consider civilian casualties to be a victory no matter which side it’s on. They have an objective and need to achieve that objective while minimizing civilian casualties. The objective of the IDF is to free the hostages. They will make an effort to minimize civilian casualties. But they must achieve that objective even while know civilian causalities are a certainty even when they make an to keep those casualties to a minimum.

      This is the nature of war. And this is a war Hamas started. And remember there could be significantly fewer casualties (and a humanitarian ceasefire) if Hamas released the hostages.

      But they won’t do that because their objective is to maximize the number of Palestinian casualties because many people look at those casualties and become angry and want to support them.

      Netanyahu will lose power because of 1400 Israeli deaths. Both Israeli and Palestinian civilian casualties are considered to be a failure by Israelis.

      Both Israeli and Palestinian civilian casualties are considered a success by Hamas. They are psychopaths that know how people react to these numbers.

      • coffee_poops@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        217·
        10 months ago

        Constantly bombs refugee camps, schools, and hospitals This is just war, bro. Yeah we have the 4th most sophisticated and accurate military on earth but we just can’t help hitting civilians who just happen to be a minority in their own land…

        Dude, the logical hoops you’ll jump through to justify a genocide is extremely concerning.

        Holocaust scholars all over the world have even condemned the bloodshed.

        This isn’t the cost of war. It’s punishment. It’s imperialism.

      • jarfil@lemmy.world
        33·
        10 months ago

        The objective of the IDF is to free the hostages. They will make an effort to minimize civilian casualties.

        When a legitimate target is hiding among civilians, there are two possible responses:

        • Civilized nations: “F%ck, guess we’ll have to wait until they move”
        • Non-civilized nations: “Collateral damage”

        But they must achieve that objective even while know civilian causalities are a certainty

        No “buts”. Like it or not, defend it or not, that’s what non-civilized nations do.

    • AMillionNames@sh.itjust.works
      55·
      10 months ago

      But only because they are the ones in power. If the positions of power were reversed, it’d be pretty much the same thing, except Hamas would be the one performing the apartheid and the genocide.

  • TinyPizza@kbin.social
    14·
    10 months ago

    This is bad news for Israels current course of action. When the guy who was popular (enough that the current guy could “best friend” his coat tails into office) starts saying this stuff loud enough for everyone to hear, it’s intentional. This looks like more subtle public distancing and changing of narrative.

    The former president argued that it was important to acknowledge multiple seemingly contradictory truths: Hamas’ actions were “horrific,” but “the occupation and what’s happening to Palestinians” were also “unbearable.”
    Obama previously spoke out on the conflict, saying in a statement that any actions by Israel that ignore the human cost of the war against Hamas “could ultimately backfire.”

    Israel and it’s supporters should be sobered by this soft diplomacy. It’s very much aimed at them and the timing should make it clear that they are being isolated.

  • TimeSquirrel@kbin.social
    141·
    10 months ago

    Funny they never say this kinda shit or act upon it when they have any actual power. Like Eisenhower and his military industrial complex speech.

  • spudwart@spudwart.comEnglish
    187·
    10 months ago

    “It’s complicated” is no excuse to be arming an already powerful nation with our tax dollars to make the situation more “complicated.”

    If it’s so damn complicated, maybe we shouldn’t be sending arms and tax dollars directly over to Israel, but rather send humanitarian aid to both sides instead.

    Taking a side in a complicated conflict of which many people don’t fully understand is an unwise decision, and using tax dollars to arm one or even both sides of a conflict we don’t fully understand is unethical.

    • bonus_crab@lemmy.world
      122·
      10 months ago

      Its their job to understand it, and they do. what they understand is that while supporting israel has a monetary cost , it secures our trade routes, which egypt has tried to close purely because ‘fuck you’ through the Mediterranean and puts pressure on the rest of the middle east to support the petrol dollar.

      If the arab countries were remotely as friendly as israel, itd diminish their value as an ally potentially to the extent that we wouldnt have to overlook the atrocities they commit. The reality is that ISIS and Hezbollah and Hamas are 100x worse. Ad soon as Iran gets nukes, theyre going to become another north korea, potentially a catalyst for WW3, and we need an ally in the region as leverage to prevent that.

      What this latest conflict has shown is that they will absolutely make suicidally stupid attacks that will result in massive casualties to their own people, so long as it advances their goal of genociding jews and anyone else thats not an arab.

      Say what you want about israel, but theyve been on the brink of kicking netanyahu and his racist ass out of office for years. Hes in a very similar situation legally to Trump. Hamas’s attack has virtually ensured that won’t happen now , as the nation enters a state of emergency, and theyve proved his fear mongering true.

  • thecrotch@sh.itjust.works
    62·
    10 months ago

    Wow Barack “double Bush’s drone strikes, kill 12,000 Afghani civilians, and bomb a Doctor’s Without Boarders hospital” Obama wants to show restraint now that he’s no longer in a position to stop the bloodshed…

        • StalinistTransition@lemm.ee
          31·
          10 months ago

          vote blue no matter who! (ignore how both parties are complicit in this genocide and are absolutely fine with it)

          • NotANaziIWasJustBornIn1988@lemmy.world
            21·
            10 months ago

            (Ignore the fact that the most effective gun control legislation of the past decade was passed by the Trump administration)

            (Ignore the fact that Joe Biden was literally sold to us as the “Conservative democrat”)

            (Ignore the fact that Roe v. Wade was overturned with Democrats controlling the White House and Congress)

    • nicetriangle@kbin.social
      1·
      10 months ago

      Bush Sr certainly fell of the map and Carter basically went on to do a lot of charitable work but wasn’t particularly vocal in the media.

      • chaogomu@kbin.social
        1·
        10 months ago

        Bush Sr was spending most of his time in the 90s cultivating a close business relationship with the Saudis, particularly his fellow members of the Carlyle Group.

        Bush Sr was at the Annual Investor’s Conference on 9/11 where Shafiq bin Laden was the Guest of Honor.

    • s_s@lemm.eeEnglish
      0·
      10 months ago

      Normal in the modern era.

      In the 1800s they’d run as senators after their presidential terms if they were young enough.

  • ivanafterall@kbin.social
    13·
    10 months ago

    And you then have to admit nobody’s hands are clean, that all of us are complicit to some degree

    Nuh-uh. You are not dragging me into this shit. I didn’t want any of it!

  • StalinistTransition@lemm.ee
    1316·
    10 months ago

    Reflection is something obama has obviously not done after commiting untold atrocities as he rolled over the middle east as a fucking imperialist bitch

      • StalinistTransition@lemm.ee
        11·
        10 months ago

        Lol i should, america loves killing minorities, but they’re also pussies that cant hold down a resistance made of farmers like 4 times in a row

        Aside from that, I’m sure his input is more relevant and nuanced than any of us could have just based on how many briefings I’m sure he received on the region over 8 years.

        The briefings: “today we only stole five million dollars of resources, raped a few dozen, and killed 50 civilians, but on my honor as a US Marine we will strive to increase these statistics for our glorious conquest.” “Thank you soldier, America is in your debt. Now how can I both lie to the public but also seem sorry about it?”

    • MonkeyBusiness@lemmy.one
      21·
      10 months ago

      Touch grass and get therapy.

      Obama’s opinion here is obvious, because Hamas and Israel have both done terrible things. But because Obama doesn’t reaffirm your opinion like every other tanky so now he’s a race traitor, and should be murdered.

      You’re no better than the brown coats.

      • StalinistTransition@lemm.ee
        12·
        10 months ago

        Touch grass and get therapy.

        I actually do work in environmentalism so im touching grass 8 hours a day as a job, have you ever even left your phone alone for a day, idiot?

        Obama’s opinion here is obvious, because Hamas and Israel have both done terrible things. But because Obama doesn’t reaffirm your opinion like every other tanky so now he’s a race traitor, and should be murdered.

        on one side israeli nazi pieces of scum are commiting genocide, on the other side we have native people fighting against genocide. Woah both are so much the same.

        Hamas are good, fuck off you slimy colonizer.

        no obama is a race traitor because he re-enforced the prison industrial complex that is specifically geared toward the harassment and imprisonment of african americans. He betrayed his race for an in with the capitalist colonizers. Stop using the black man to cover for your racism, liberal

        You’re no better than the brown coats.

        sweetie you support the genocide, you are the brown coats