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Wtf pugjesus… i though you were based… and now you are pulling this type of bullshit that the dumbass partisans idiots pull to shit on people that have a non extreme point of view that ends up not allining with theirs?
Cmon m8 we can do better than this, if anybody is arguing seriously that the invaders are as bad as the invaded, they are either dumb, tankies (mostly both), CCP/Russia shills, trolls or litteral children on a “comrade” face, (and therefore neither of these should be taken seriously) not centrist and neither people that are looking for the truth of the things argue that the victim here is the villian, and the ones that do are not doing it on good fate and are not looking for a middle point.
And the worst part is that there isnt really a middle point in that situation, the only one i could think of is that war is bad and colonialism is bad (cuz thats whats looks to me russia is trying to do here to Ukcraine) and even then those point at the fact that the main instigator here (Russia) is the bad guy.
Its like that other dumb post that was looking to shit on non extreme viewpoints trying to shit on centrism putting it between genocide and not genocide, like wtf one of those is a ridiculusly extreme point that cant have a middle ground, so the main point of that dumb post was to justify lashing against those that doesnt allign to either extreme stance by grouping them with the people they dont like, and with partisan shills it thends to be the other political party, even if one cant really form part of that party since one can be not an US citicen.
Not sorry for long text btw.
Do better.
Man, I’m not here saying “If you don’t support The People’s Party you are One Of Them”. I’m not trying to say that everyone who doesn’t support Fully Automated Gay Luxury Space Communism is a Reactionary Dog, or that there are no moderate positions which are valid. I’m criticizing the self-professed centrists and moderates who argue that ‘both sides’ are guilty in the war and for that reason, we shouldn’t be involved. You can say they’re dumb, and you might be right, but they exist in non-negligible numbers.
Bipartisan is working with both sides, I think you mean partisan, taking a side. Confused me for a moment.
If you’re still trying to pull “both sides” to defend a country murdering and abducting children, you have no footing to stand on.
They don’t care. It’s meant to muddy the waters, confuse people who only pay attention to world affairs on the surface level. Repeat it, and people remember it. Doesn’t matter who responds to you. Doesn’t matter what they say to refute it. All that matters is getting the material out there, making it pop, making it catchy. Then all you have to do is rely on spotty human memory to do the rest.
It’s even better when you get third parties passing along your propaganda too, and all the implications it drags with it.
I am a centrist, when I say both sides are bad, it doesn’t mean both sides are bad in every single conflict but that both sides have their issues. For example, Ukraine has a problem with Nazism, but that doesn’t mean they should be invaded by Russia.
The reason why this strawman meme like OP posted, gains traction is because most centrists don’t really bother wasting time and effort arguing online.
“I am a centrist”
And as such no one should listen to a thing you say.
Neither should they to you either. I’m a nobody, just like you.
Centrism isn’t a political position. It’s an attitude. It means you have a tendency to view dichotomies as false, and further that the truth, as you understand it, exists somewhere between two presented (false) dichotomies.
Centrism means different things depending on political context. It could mean you’re a socialist, a capitalist, a fascist, a bolshevik. It doesn’t present a political view in and of itself, and as such it’s usually an incredibly unprincipled stance.
Do you look at class through a socialist lens or a fascist one? As in, do you believe the classes are opposed in their interests or aligned?
Do you support the state’s monopoly on violence and subsequent declaration of private property rights?
Do you view allowing the interests of capital to steer the global economy via institutions like the IMF as a grave injustice or the invisible hand of the market doing what’s best for humanity?
The answer to these questions, if you look into things, will often align in a coherent way. It’s unlikely, for example, that you’ll take a socialist lens on classes in viewing them as conflicted while also supporting the declaration of property rights in direct opposition to the interests of the worker.
If you’re in the U.S and you’re a self-described centrist, you’re likely a capitalist who’s simply undecided on some social issues. If you were brought up religious but went to secular public school, that would cause some dissonance in analyzing social issues. However, this inability to form a coherent view shouldn’t be the main feature of your self-described political stance.
It’s better to just say you haven’t done enough research to come to any reasonable political position. It’s much better to accept that humans don’t know everything and know where your own knowledge falls short.
Ukraine has a problem with Nazism, but that doesn’t mean they should be invaded by Russia.
This tells me that you both think that Putin invaded Ukraine because of the nazism (he didn’t) and that you shouldn’t invade a country for being full of nazis (you absolutely should) Congratulations, the average liberal once again managed to support the worst of both sides.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone call Ukraine just as bad as Russia
I have, unfortunately. People talking about “Donbass genocide” and the like, asserting Russia is anti-imperialist, eagerly gobbling up Russian propaganda like it was their last meal.
I’m guessing you’ve never heard of Hexbear?
i lurk there sometimes
That is 100% what they want. Nobody is immune to propaganda and they know that, if they can get people to start looking there - even out of hatred - they can recruit into their echo chamber. That’s their goal.
is implying russians are still socialist soviets, and claiming the opposite side said things they havent not propaganda too? ive been watching this kind of thing for a while now.
ive been proto right wing before looking closer into politics and I held a similar opinion without realizing there isnt such a thing as a neutral news and spaces when it comes to this and the ones claiming to be neutral are lying even harder.
much better to understand the biases and motivations behind what you see on the political spectrum and form your own opinions accordingly.
Nope
Consider yourself lucky.
Welcome to ‘Murica.
I’ve seen GOP idiots in my local news comments try to somehow convince others that Ukraine is stealing money from “us” that could be used to rebuild after our fires, etc, and that they deserve whatever they get.
People are fucking morons.
It’s incredible watching them suddenly become doves. Like it’s in America’s best interest to see peace in Ukraine, and Ukraine is the one that needs to roll over to make that happen. Somehow, Russia leaving is never mentioned.
At most I have seen nato skepticism or antiwar sentiment accused of being supportive of Russia or demonizing Ukraine, but the equivalence of Ukraine and Russia are both equally bad actors isn’t really a thing.
Yeah. There’s always internet comments that can be screenshotted over two years. I mean that really goes to show it is not a popular or prominent position that is held. It’s not a serious position.
Getting on with it though: it more importantly isn’t a position held or expressed by anyone in positions of power or policy over the war as far as I know. At least not that aligns with the meme or the general idea that Ukraine is somehow just as bad as Russia.
The pro Russia crowd supports Russia so even their stance don’t fall under this category of thinking Ukraine and Russia are indistinguishable bad.
Ukraine is a very flawed country. It has a real problem with corruption, nationalism and treatment of minority language groups (not just Russians). Still a better country than Russia, and trying to move towards a liberal democracy which is also at least better. But people tend to ignore thier faults completely.
You can’t have been on lemmy for long then. Because tankies thinks Ukraine is bad and Russia is good, which is even worse (although both opinions stesms from the same Russian propaganda).
did china shoot children recently?
I dont get it.
I mean, yes, definitely they have. But they were probably Uyghurs or something so sympathizers don’t mind.
The children were ravenous demons! Foaming at the mouth!
Nazi Satanist drug-addicts, no doubt. It was self-defense.
I don’t blame Ukraine for defending their home, but I do blame the US for pulling strings everywhere and causing tensions that lead to war. It’s something that has happened again and again, and no one really cares because it’s usually not a problem of the West.
Yeah, remember when the US forced Russia to invade Crimea and prop up separatist republics in eastern Ukraine? It’s a shame we’re so set on causing tensions. /s
The /s is unnecessary. The date is November 21th, 2013.
Oh no, don’t tell me you’re one of the “Euromaidan was a CIA plot” people
