Brilliantly said!
How many of the 40 million votes were in locked-in blue states?
I would wonder this too. Also is there even a point of voting in a blue locked state beside the chance that there’s a huge surge in Republican voters? Like is there a difference between an area winning with 72% of the vote compared to 75% of the vote? Genuinely asking as I am a moron.
Illinois has Mary Miller and she’s not that far away from Champaign county which is where UIUC is located.
There’s more than just president up for election.
Not that many. Guess why they’re locked-in blue states.
Do you have a source? California is locked in blue, but also just has a huge population.
what do people expect to improve for Bidens odds in November?
Odds?
of winning. if election were held today, trump’s winning, by a pretty ugly margin by the looks of things. what’s gonna be different by november?
Not whining like a kid and not supporting something just because it doesn’t look like it’s gonna have a landslide win or even may have a chance to lose.
It is a closed voting system still, ffs. Nobody will judge you because you take some minutes and stand by something you support even if you think it is going to lose, which is still just a propaganda effect as the French 2nd election just showed how people are more prone to get their asses political for a few days and go vote for what they want.
Do you get points for voting for the winning candidate?
Im saying you’re gonna end up with trump trying to stick with a candidate thats both not winning and not willing to try anything different to win.
I see you’re unfamiliar with how the Democratic party works.
Sure but does my vote in a blue county in a blue state really matter? If elections were actually chosen by who won the popular vote, maybe people wouldn’t be so jaded about voting.
I don’t give a single solitary fuck how jaded some motherfuckers are - People died so we could vote! Fucking DO IT.
So many goddamn toddlers out here like “weaaah why can’t everything work like magic! Waahh i don’t like the politics! I know everything about government and I pronounce it a dumb stupid thing because i dont like it!” Christ in a bucket we got nazis walking up the goddamn driveway and shitheads in here are all “ewww biden might lose, i demand offers for my partici-“ VOTE you assholes! ffs
People have died for tons of reasons
I award you “most ambiguous comment in this thread”. Congrats
Not really ambiguous. Just because someone has died for a system, doesn’t mean it’s worth supporting that system.
This attitude is what is alienating gen Z from voting. You’re basically saying “want freedom?? choose exactly who I say!!!”. I’m sure you can see how it’s bad optics. It plays well in the Lemmy echo chamber, but ffs pay attention to other people.
You’re basically saying “want freedom?? choose exactly who I say!!!”. I’m sure you can see how it’s bad optics.
Holy fucking shit, our options are “Fascism” or “Not-fascism”, sorry for finding only one of those actually acceptable?
It plays well in the Lemmy echo chamber, but ffs pay attention to other people.
It plays much worse in Lemmy than it does in real life, since in Lemmy there are always a seemingly endless number of commenters ready to throw a fit over the idea that preventing fascism is necessary.
Oh you’re the guy who is pretending that fascist extremeism is a new phenomenon in the United States?
Look into the history of the Japanese Concentration camps. Or our modern-day legalized slavery system, as protected by the constitution.
No, I’m the guy who called you out for pretending that Trump is just “business as usual” and that your normalization of fascism was disgusting. You then descended into a series of non-sequiturs and tangents.
You’re mad at me for saying the United States is fascist, you should be mad at the United States for being fascist.
What other word would you use to describe a country with legalized slavery and concentration camps?
This attitude is what is alienating gen Z from voting.
Hey, y’know what alienated John Lewis from voting? THE KLAN. Y’know what alienated every woman from voting before 1920? All the asshole patriarchy your shitheaded tantrums continue to support.
So why don’t you take all the millions of Gen Z voters you represent, and your GRU playbook, and shut up. This is bullshit.
I’m not even Gen Z, I’m young millennial.
But also. Uhm. I don’t think that leftists were restricting voting rights. You’re coming across a lil like, Q-anon, chronically online here.
But yeah, telling people to shut up is exactly why people are like. Hm. Why support the party of “shut up”?
But also. Uhm. I don’t think that leftists were restricting voting rights.
What the fuck does that have to do with anything??
You’re coming across a lil like, Q-anon, chronically online here.
You’re coming across like a deliberately obtuse and ill-informed twit. Enjoy the reich you so cluelessly want.
Who spells Qanon with a hyphen??
my unhinged stranger in Christ, you brought up woman’s suffrage
Yes? As a movement required to bring half the population in America the vote? It was a huge effort many people sacrificed for? Yes, yes?
No one can be forced to vote for a specific person, but the options are currently democrat or dictatorship. Not voting is a vote for the dictatorship. If it weren’t such a dangerous candidate then we wouldn’t be pushing for this vote. Blocking your ears and saying “lalala” doesn’t make things better. Ignorance won’t be bliss.
You’re being pretty disingenuous right now. I am telling you how this messaging is being received. The spaces I’m in on tiktok/instagram lean younger/more left than this site. The overwhelming response to this kind of rhetoric is frustration with this kind of messaging, which, has been at the forefront in several consecutive election cycles at this point. You can keep doing it, but it’s just alienating people and giving off the message that there is no room for discussion amongst committed Democrats. An election is not going to be won by only appealing to moderate Democrats, and moderate Democrats are the only people who will be influenced by this kind of messaging.
The response to my comment alone proves my point. Nobody is engaging with it, everyone is just like … well everyone should just vote for Biden because blah blah blah but not addressing the impact of this rhetoric, which I have explained, or the concerns amongst people not interested in voting for Biden.
You wanna know why then ask why. The why is because we don’t have a ranked choice system and convincing moderate democrats to go third party is not gonna happen. If you vote for any third party at this time, you’re basically just throwing your vote in the trash since you won’t have a chance to vote again. We need as many people voting for Biden or the next Democrat that would replace him, if he were to drop out, as we can get. Your vote won’t count otherwise. If you want to know why you shouldn’t vote for Trump, google Project 2025 and watch his rallies. Listen to how much hate he spews. He wants anyone who is not a straight white male to be slaves or dead. With recent changes from the Supreme Court, he will also be able to do anything he wants if he gets back into office and he will absolutely make it a dictatorship.
Did I ask?
I’m talking about how a demographic is receiving certain messaging.
I think the biggest thing is just that I have seen amongst most of the zoomers a kind of instantaneous reaction when presented with a glut of information. They either reject it out of hand with some thought terminating cliche almost instantly, or they will voraciously try to find more, it’s kind of a split between two extremes, and there’s rarely a kind of casual lust that I think has maybe been the case more in the past. I think it’s partially the internet, I think it’s partially the fact that society is slowly rotting and all of the formalities are also rotting away, but yeah.
So I think that this casual do-gooder vote blue no matter who kind of mentality is not really appealing to most people I interface with. They’re going to have more questions than that like 50% of the time, and then 50% of the rest of the time when they’re on like, tiktok, or twitter, or some other echo chamber where they understand that it is all pure optics and neoreligious brainrot and there is no genuineness to be had, they just will out of hand be like “just put the fries in the bag, bro”, kind of a deal. But yeah, I don’t think the casual political engagement plays well.
My county and state are deep red, my blue vote actually doesn’t matter.
There were deep red states that swung to purple because people actually went and voted. You are one out of many saying this and therefore making it worse. If you don’t cast your vote then your vote actually means nothing and you’ve done nothing to change it.
I never said I dont vote, just that it doesn’t matter when I’m a very small minority. I’ll believe my area can swing when I see it.
Do you know everyone in your area? Do you know who all is voting? I used to say the same thing and now I vote in all elections including midterm because I see all these people who keep saying that their votes don’t matter and I never want to be part of that again. You are one out of hundreds saying the same thing who are part of the problem. Maybe if people actually used those few minutes to go vote then maybe that would change, but it’ll never happen if you sit around being defeatist.
Wonder how many people like you are there in your county and state.
Not very many, clearly.
Note how they did NOT state who to vote for though, so actually, no you are wrong
Reading comprehension reveals that this commenter wants people to vote for Biden.
Because they said not to vote for Nazis? Wow, big points for the red team over here
Yes, that is their argument. Vote for Biden or else Nazi-Trump. And my comment was about how that argument is being recieved. Glad you’ve caught up.
Ok, so when are you going to catch up to the last 20 uears of politics?
“Don’t vote for fascists” is browbeating people, and mean, and besides Both Sides™, and nothing will change under a Trump administration, you’re all just scare mongering.
You know, the classic, hitting every cheap dogwhistle they can.
I am in pain after reading this. Thanks PugJesus
They just want to agitate for fascism. Below they admit that they don’t see Trump as any exceptional threat and that the US is already fascist.
Why they think voting matters at all in a fascist state, I’m not sure, but it’s probably completely logically consistent will all of their claims. /s
Maybe my claims seem logically inconsistent to you because you are deliberately misrepresenting them to be so.
Weird how you have never once responded to any of the evidence I use to support the idea that the US is already very fascist.
No comment on slavery, concentration camps… here’s another one: perpetual war, militarized police, voter suppression?
What word would you use to describe a political system that has legalized slavery embedded in its constitution?
How do people like this exist
It’s possible your vote might not ultimately be the deciding vote and that your preferred candidates win easily. But many solidly one colored states have flipped, and the first time it happens it’s always close. Why risk it? Most places have a means by which to vote which is easy and accessible - vote by mail and early voting are an option in most places, especially blue states. Generally early voting takes a matter of minutes. Your vote is your voice in politics, don’t you want it to be heard?
I live in a pretty red state and typically vote very blue. I vote every single election I am able to, because local elections matter too, and when it comes to president, my voice is going to be counted, even if my state sends their electoral votes elsewhere.
If the electoral college votes against you then I’d say your voice is not being counted.
Regardless of where the electoral votes go, the breakdown of number of votes is still there and visible, and accessible for all to see in perpetuity. Whether anyone in power cares what those numbers say is another matter, but my vote, and thus my voice, IS counted.
It must be nice to be satisfied with symbolic victories. So much easier than actually winning.
What on earth are you even trying to say? You can never win if you don’t vote, and you’re over here implying that it’s a waste of time to do so. Go back to your troll farm.
I’m implying that being satisfied that your vote is recorded while you continually lose is not a real victory.
I never said it was? Or that I was merely satisfied with that? Voting is the very least a person can do as a citizen, and discouraging people from doing it for ANY reason is asinine.
There’s usually quite a lot of people on the ballot, most of them are running for sometime other than president.
How many of them were in counties that mattered?
Enough for it to matter.
You know those people who live in counties that don’t matter? Okay, not them. Obvs.
How many of those were in the 5-6 states where their vote actually matters? Cuz I’m in a state thats been hard blue since like, Reagan.
We don’t have a true popular vote. If we did we’d never have a Republican president again.
I live in Utah. The difference in numbers in Utah is crazy. If everyone registered as other than Republican voted for Biden and just registered Republicans voted for Trump, Trump would still win by around 10%. Registered Democrats are outnumbered 2:1 by unaffiliated and 4:1 by Republicans.
In fact, “Unaffiliated” is the second largest group of active voters in Utah.
Yeah, you have a theocracy telling everyone how to vote. You think the populous will go against that when it means a fiery damnation for eternity?
populace
Exactly. Mormonism is just as much a threat to the US (and any country they’re in) as the Evangelicals and fascists.
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2024/03/15/byu-will-require-incoming-students/
Or maybe, ANY Religion or “Registered Religious Practice” Organization will only get tax exemption status if they refrain from political activities like funding or sponsoring or advocating or supporting any said political group(s).
If any Scientology, Roman Catholic, Evangelical Organization, others are found to be supporting or funding or organizing for political parties including PAC donations or
briberylobbying efforts, they will immediately receive a 100% tax status at 100% tax with 100 year prison for every participating Religious person/member/leader who did the deed.
You should switch from vote to freedomvote where 1 freedomvote is worth 100 votes.
Bit of a tangential point: Every vote counts but not every vote counts the same. Voters in California get less of a say than voters in Maine.
The difference is quite big too. A Wyoming vote is apparently currently worth 2.87 times the average American’s vote. So probably like 5 times the most worthless vote…
Depending on the accent, that’s a pretty good little poem.
“Hillary is the best choice, she’s guaranteed to win!” - the democratic party in 2016.
“Well, she may not be the best choice, but it’s her turn.” – insiders.
She was never the best choice of the Democrats available, but you must admit we had no idea how goddamned stupid people were back then. She should have won. Turns out, yeah, russia was listening.
I don’t know who down voted you? They have proven several times that Trump’s inner circle was with Russian businesses that controlled advertising on Facebook. It’s not that far of a stretch.
They probably worked harder than they had to. She really is an unlikable piece of shit.
Ridiculously qualified, intelligent, experienced, liberal as we could hope for at the time.
Just so unlikable. And shrill!! Oh, and not even a man. Pfft.
Did we forget Bernie existed and got shafted that election?
Bernie lost. Even accounting for the shafting. I wish he didn’t. But it happens.
One thing not being mentioned here is that people were tired of establishment politicians who don’t change anything. So many people voted for Obama hoping for change, but then said “fuck it” and voted for Trump.
Hilary Clinton is an extremely condescending political elite that seems to have about as much humanity as a lizard.
She’s a perfect representation of the DNC.
Disagree. She’s spent the vast majority of her life in politics to do some good. As a woman, she broke a lot of rules and is still to this day mercilessly attacked for it.
Was she so perfect even the shitheaded communist idiots loved every single thing she did? Astoundingly, unbelievably, Nope. Was she the best choice for president of all the candidates on the ballot in 2016? Yes. Without a doubt
Is she forever going to be shit on for not being perfect in every way to all people? No. Just until the current living generations are dead.
Whatever. People need to shit on her, go for it. Shit yourselves a bust of Hillary you can shit on. You can meet all sorts of wonderful Limbaugh fans in there.
Lol I don’t think it’s a good thing if it takes everyone dying for your reputation to improve. That is a pretty wild argument.
Also, you’re just calling everyone that supports communism a shit headed idiot? For real?
And she was a terrible, weak candidate that brought nothing progressive to the table. That’s why she lost to Donald Trump.
It was painfully obvious that Bernie was the better candidate. He energized people. He would have stomped on Trump.
But instead the DNC had to give Hilary “her turn” and now we’re in this mess.
Being an angry Hilary supporter is ridiculous and honestly kind of funny.
She lost the most winnable election she could hope for. Must be the Russians.
She wasn’t running against Woodrow Wilson. That’s literally the most winnable race as long as Taft doesn’t spoil the vote.
The russians helped a lot.
*establishment democrat, not liberal
FUCK. Goddamn fucking liberal is not liberal is bad is left is bougie is FUCK.
Talking with a hallucinating AI in the form of a lemmy community. Is anyone here over 25 and a registered American voter? Anyone? Couple of people, okay. Just a couple huh. Well, makes sense.
Um… ok. You have a problem, bud.
Al Gore should have won too, but here we are.
Your votes are you giving your consent for the Palestine genocide, from the perspective of your government.
No, they are not. And saying so is complete bullshit.
And what the orange alternative will get them?
I will never take a single vote for granted considering how many elections in very recent history were literally decided by a single vote.
It’s even important to vote in states and districts that are deep red/blue where the minority party is statistically unlikely to win, because if you don’t show up the numbers will never reflect the true demographic of people who want a change. Not to mention the arguably more important down ballot races for local elections. Change on a macro scale might be difficult, but change on a local level is very possible.
The way I look at it is yeah your one vote doesn’t count for much, but consider this; if you can convince 5 friends to join you in voting for the same candidate, that’s 6 more votes that the opposition will also need to scrounge up just to win by the same margin as if you did not vote at all. That’s not insignificant. Using your right to vote can swing the social dialogue more towards compromise in future elections if enough people turn out.
if you don’t show up the numbers will never reflect the true demographic of people who want a change
If Republicans actually gave a shit about this sort of thing you’d have a point. But they win by one vote and act like they’ve got a mandate.
if you can convince 5 friends to join you
This assumes I have 5 friends. Or any friends, really.
It’s only Hillary, said the DNC in 2016.
If you vote for her SHE’LL WIN 😡
How many of those registered Democrats were in a state that was +10% for either of the candidates?
Local and state races are also important and you should vote in them even if your state is a lock, but if you know for a fact your vote for president won’t matter why cast it? To give the Democrats an even greater sense of smugness at winning the popular vote despite losing the election?
I mean ignoring the fact that you already mentioned about local and state races being immensely important, unbelievably important, there is something to be said of the notion of a president’s winning an election despite an overwhelming majority voting against him. That’s not nothing. If only for the moral message to the people of what a corrupt system we have. But also the Practical effects of it. The pressure that puts on politicians the pressure that puts on the parties the pressure that puts on legislation, the pressure that puts on future campaigning and financing, it all matters. In politics everything is connected.
If only for the moral message to the people of what a corrupt system we have.
I would think that would make people even less likely to vote, since they think it doesn’t do anything.
The pressure that puts on politicians the pressure that puts on the parties the pressure that puts on legislation, the pressure that puts on future campaigning and financing, it all matters.
I don’t believe this. Both Bush II and Trump acted like they had some kind of massive mandate despite losing the popular vote. Maybe if the shoe was on the other foot and it was Democrats winning without getting the most votes they’d be introspective enough to change tactics, but Republicans don’t give a fuck.
https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/results/president
The difference in the 2020 election was about 7 million votes. Even with the electoral college, another 40 million votes not impacting the 2024 election would be statistically improbable. Biden would win in an unprecedented landslide.
We know what states have been swing states before. We don’t know which states will be swing states in 2024 with 100% accuracy. If enough people didn’t vote, any state would become a swing state. If everyone who has said “your vote for president won’t matter” or equivalent voted we would see radically different results in US elections.
If all those votes were in already blue states it wouldn’t have changed anything.
But I’m making the mistake of assuming voters are acting rationally and understand the rules of the game, which they don’t. They’re not going to, like I did, not vote for the presidential candidate because I keep an eye on the polls and know that it’s going 2:1 to someone but continue to vote down ballot. They’re just not voting because reasons.
We’d all be well-served to stop thinking of voters as rational people.
If all those votes were in already blue states it wouldn’t have changed anything.
That’s ridiculously unlikely. Also, what’s a blue state now may be a swing state on election day.
They’re not going to, like I did, not vote for the presidential candidate because I keep an eye on the polls and know that it’s going 2:1 to someone but continue to vote down ballot.
Polls gauge approval, which is only an approximation for who people are going to vote for. The polls aren’t supposed to be a guide for who to vote for. Vote for democracy and against fascism.
We’d all be well-served to stop thinking of voters as rational people.
It’s better to think of people as self-interested. Being self-interested does not imply a person will necessarily act or even know how to act in their own self-interest. If life was a game of perfect of information the vast majority of people would make decisions that were actually in their own self-interest. As opposed to real life where global temperatures and fascism are on the rise. It’s not for a lack of rationality that people are sleep walking into fascism. It’s a lack of knowledge and critical thinking skills. edit: typo
There was no universe where Clinton was losing MD in 2016. It went 2:1 for her. My not voting for her had zero effect.
And it is a lack of rationality. Otherwise Trump couldn’t get elected dogcatcher.
It’s the universe where enough people didn’t vote. If everyone who says stuff like this voted, we wouldn’t have had Donald Trump as president the first time.
People are incredibly rational. We can put people on the moon and send rovers to Mars. We are working on fusion reactors and quantum computers. Humanity is really good at rationality. People are really uniformed and lack critical thinking skills. Those things have to be learned.
MAGA supporters think they are acting in their own self-interest. They lack true information and the critical thinking skills to challenge the false information that they’ve been given. Given that they have been misled they then act in a rational way to their own destruction. Trump’s supporters think he’s going to make America great again. So they vote for him. They don’t check their zip code. They don’t check the polls. They are convinced that a second Trump presidency is in their own self-interest. So they do the rational thing of showing up and voting for him.
That’s not even counting unaffiliated and registered independent citizens that abstained.
I’m independent but I can’t vote for a vegetable. Do better. I’m hoping some third party options appear. Doubtful. We’re locked into a two party shitshow. Don’t pretend Biden is a good option.
You say “do better.”
What have you done the past four years to get a better candidate? Biden has done plenty. I suggest you look it up.
Do better.
Third party “options” will fail in the electoral college. Because electoral votes (with very few exceptions) are all-or-nothing.
Non voting, third party voting, helps trump.
This is not complicated.
You say that like it’s supposed to convince me to vote for Biden but I’d rather see Trump in office and I loathe Trump. If it wasn’t clear, I’m not on the left, I’m in the center. I’m used to getting thousands of downvotes for expressing my opinion so don’t think that mocking me for the ten thousandth time will change my mind. You might wonder why I’m in Lemmy.world with this opinion but I hate echo chambers so fucking blast away.
Why would you rather see Trump in office?
I promise to not ridicule you. I am hoping for a well thought out response.
Go With Dog, Intrepid Questioner
Yeah like why trump? I liked the idea of him too, when it was vs Hilary. But i regret it, trump drives up to much hate. Hell hes spewing so much nonsense that he riled up a mentally unwell kid who then took shots at him. Thats his fault, hes the one who brought hate and violence into the debate. Im more right leaning but not for the biggoted angry shit.
Biden has shown he can do a lot of good. More importantly, we have a literal timestamp in history books of what bad Trump and the GOP is able to do. So then I have a very simple question for you:
Maintain the status quo and work to fix it
or
Don’t vote for Biden or whatever candidate is put forth in his place?
Yes, that is the ultimatum.
Cool, so you directly or indirectly help the fascist get elected. Smart.
That’s my problem with other liberals/independents. Everyone has to pass their bullshit purity test (candidates, friends, family, etc). That’s why Republicans win. They stick together no matter what.
You’re not independent, you’re a fascist. Blocked.
You’re not voting for the vegetable. You’re voting for the massive administration the vegetable comes with.
Well-put. The admin is one of the most important things that the president does.
Biden is a shit option. Most of us are not voting for him we are once again voting against the dictator on day one in Chief, Trump.
I too wish that a younger candidate would replace him. Lord knows that him picking JD Vance will get some of the young folks to vote for him.
I’d rather have a vegetable than a fat racist fuckhead
The third party options that are likely to appear on the ballot in most states are RFK Jr., Chase Oliver, and Jill Stein. RFK Jr. isn’t my cup of tea, but he’s been polling the best of the three-- double digits last I checked, which wasn’t recently. They can’t accuse you of “stealing” a vote from the DNC if you weren’t going to vote in the first place.
(Just kidding; they will accuse you. This is Lemmy. You’re basically a fascist™ now.)
